Ralph has done some remarkable "51" customizations over the years. Glad he could join the new board. I just noticed he placed image of some of those 51's in FPB's Gallery (anyone can create album or add pics to pre-defined albums) and store the images here. But, these 51's certainly are worth a wider look, for those not yet familiar with Gallery.

regards

-d

David I recently noticed Prathers work.. These are awesome custom replica's.. my question is are they worth the heavy prices? For me some of the pricing would get a collector of Parker 51's the real authentic 51 double jewel? Just wondering if they are worth and original? I think they are beautiful and worth price but I would like to know what pro's think about this? Thank you Jeff

[post='http://www.ebay.com/...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT']Ebay [/post]

Maybe not the best picture, but this kind of shows the variation between one Cordovan and the next. In person not one of these has an identical color to the next.

 

I also have another Vacumatic "no imprint" the color cannot be called Cordon or Burgundy ? I will post pictures in a few moments to get some other thoughts on these two strange vacumatic colors I have..

Top one might be Brick and the other one is unknown. Plum or Cedar Blue. Maybe something else.

 

 

Thank you for sharing.. My Parker 51 in the same grey has a strong imprint I will post a pic when I get a chance.

Greetings:

I know John Danza (FPB Advisor with focus on very early Parker pens) was just dying to see some threads on Parker's "51".

Parker "51" is amongst the most collected old pens out there. You likely know that the early (1941-1948) pens with Vacumatic filling system are "known" in 7 colors:

Common colors:
 

• India Black
• Dove Gray
• Cordovan
• Cedar Blue

Uncommon colors:

• Buckskin Beige
• Yellowstone Yellow (Mustard)
• Nassau Green.

Of course, that does not explain this really uncommon pen, a single jewel vac-fill "51" done in the later Aerometric color Navy Gray, a more "elephant" greenish-gray than the more desaturated Dove Gray of the vac era. This one lasted about ten minutes when I'd posted it in the "Parker 51 Insanity" update December 2008. As with all I've seen so far like this, this pen lacks an imprint by the clutch ring. Speculation suggests Parker ran a few pens around the cusp of the filler change to Aerometric in this "new" cp;pr, but with old filler style, making these 1948 pens. One text calls Navy Gray vac-filler pens "prototype" but that is somewhat ambiguous, to say the least.

 

So...

Would anyone care that I've now seen my first vac-fil "51" in another Aerometric color... Burgundy?


regards

David

 

 

 

David I have a vacumatic in the same color but the barrel is stamped  "Made in England"?

Link? I can't find it.

http://parkeropedia.jimdo.com/źródła/

Well.

 

This could be interesting.

 

http://www.pentrace.com

 

Is this what the name implies? They can trace a pens origins?

 

 

Weird thing is, he'd likely have made more during that time at minimum wage. They always are tough before they go to jail.

 

-d

 

Does anyone have a list of user names that this kids used so I can make sure to look out for him?

Weird thing is, he'd likely have made more during that time at minimum wage. They always are tough before they go to jail.

 

-d

They are always tough before jail and they always find God in prison thru my profession also I learned everyone in jail claims innocents.. 

 

Just wanted to let everyone know I recently received my latest purchase from this seller, (Believe this makes three) and I am satisfied, my second purchase from the seller was a half demonstrator which as I said in previous post I was told before purchase that the Parker 51 demonstrator hood was a reproduction part. The last purchase was a Parker 51 (buckskin) 1945 1st quarter (all authentic) my best offer price was accepted and I am very happy with my purchase..

 

I'm with Todd.  Being prepared to buy well is important.  But, "not knowing what you are looking at" as a buyer does not excuse fraud by seller.

 

Agree 1000% here. "Buyer beware" is not an excuse for fraudulent behavior on the part of the seller. As part of my profession, I deal with the issue of fraud, waste & abuse in the medical billing world all the time. The difference between "abuse" and "fraud"? Criminal intent. Case in point right here in the thread:

 

I can take this one step further.  I watched a well known ebay pen seller purchase reproduction parts at a pen show.  Those parts becaome 'experimental' and 'prototype' pens about 2 months later. 

 

 

Todd's example is clear criminal fraud. There's nothing "squishy" about it. Todd could have reported this person to the authorities, and possibly should have.

 

Bottom line: Being an old widow (if she really was) doesn't excuse being a scammer.

 

I am in agreement with you all as for misrepresentation.. And was only making the point that at least I was informed of the truth before purchase.. I mean if the seller really was scamming or committing fraud as you all say, do you think the seller would of told me of the reproduction before I made purchase?

Also It was not in Auction, it was listed in a BIN or Best Offer...

Reaper, the "so what" you are asking about was clearly explained to you in the last thread. But here it is again:

 

The seller obviously knows that the demonstrator hood on these partial demonstrators is not original, as shown by your statement here:

I have seen the Partial Demonstrators and asked the seller about it and IMMEDIATELY  I was told by the seller that it was "NOT" an authentic original Parker demonstrator.

 

So, even if it is an old woman selling her husband's collection, she must know SOMETHING about the pens.  Maybe her husband left good notes.

 

The "so what if it's not 100% authentic" is this: The seller makes NO MENTION of a replacement hood in the listing.  An original partial demonstrator has more collector value than a partial demonstrator made of reproduction parts.  The wording in the listing makes it seem like the pen is an ORIGINAL demonstrator. 

 

Wording from the auction -----

"It was very much part of Parkers Marketing plan that potential customers should be encouraged to look at and handle the new product as much as possible. To this end a range of pens known as demonstrators were produced. Clear Lucite was used to reveal the internal workings of the pen and provide a talking point for the salesmen. Customers were often encouraged to actually write with the pen and by using light colour ink it was possible to highlight key features of the 51 such as the collector."

----- end wording from auction.

 

So, to summarize as simply as I possibly can:

The seller knows that the parts aren't original.  The seller does not state in the auction that the parts aren't original.  The seller makes it seem like the parts ARE original.  This makes the pen SEEM more valuable, even though it is not.  This is WRONG.

No I totally get your point.. But my thoughts with eBay it is what it is.. if you don't know what your looking at then move on..  

 

Please see this thread for further discussion.  http://fountainpenbo...-parker-51-djs/

Brian,

 

I've been told we [FPB in general] are to harsh on the eBay 51 buyers and sellers.  If I understand correctly, one of us was politely told we don't know much about 51s.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Todd

 

You know I agree Todd, yes their are some eBay sellers that will scam unsuspecting buyers.. The last time this board started on this one particular eBay seller.. I became interested in the so called Fake DJ so I contacted the eBay seller (who told me they were told by FPB it was a fake / after market blind cap) I told them I knew that and would purchased the set anyway, which I then made an offer which was excepted .. and by the way still the set I am presently using, .. I then explained to the seller why FPB was jumping all over there Parker 51 set and judging them so harsh! so I gave the seller some advise.. After a few messages back and forth come to find out the seller is an older woman selling her passed husbands collection of Parker 51's which she knew almost nothing about, I don't know but I think she has some nice Parkers for sale every so often, they may be a bit priced but I have purchased a few and each one my best offer was accepted and am 100% satisfied..

I have seen the Partial Demonstrators and asked the seller about it and IMMEDIATELY  I was told by the seller that it was "NOT" an authentic original Parker demonstrator.. Which I thought to be honorable of the seller to tell me before I made the purchase.. So I then made an offer which was accepted (and for much less than the asking price ), I since received my Parker 51 Partial demonstrator and it is restored correctly, so what if it is not 100% authentic.. It is 90% authentic.. and seller told me all of this before making the purchase.. and she sent me the original hood.. 

I wonder if any of the parts on the pen I linked to were actually in Janseville at the same time.  I might go as far as to say some have never been to Wisconsin.

 

FB

I doubt it also.. Especially with the cap being Made in Canada. 

My question the date T7 I heard a rumor that some believe the T standing for Toronto? Which if true would make the barrel Made in Canada?

Note that the certificate doesn't certify that Douglas MacArthur owned the pen.  The only thing it certifies is that it is a genuine Parker 51.

 

(And that it has a Fhish scale cap)

The certs were the first thing I noticed.. and I sent him a message telling him he had a fine Parker 51 double jewel with  "Fishscale" caps and offered him a generous $2500 but he kept insisting it was McArthurs pen? I quoted history of McArthurs whereabouts during that time period and reminded him that Israel was not a country until 1948 (thanks to NORM's input, Thank you Norm) and offered him a little lower price for the fish scales, But honestly would not want those since they engraved the caps.. I told the seller if this Parker 51 belonged to McArthur the Parker 51 belonged in a museum and I told him, he needed more than those certs that only certify a genuine Parker 51...

Norm Thank you I had been focusing on General MacArtur's whereabouts in 1942, I did not think about when Israel became a country.. I have attached the Hebrew Certificate I am not sure but it looks like it was purchased in 2011 not 1942? Also here is the link to the relished Parker 51 fish scale, he resisted it in an auction starting price $25,000 dollars.. 

http://www.ebay.com/...item1c583064db 

Norm Thank you I had been focusing on General MacArtur's whereabouts in 1942, I did not think about when Israel became a country.. I have attached the Hebrew Certificate I am not sure but it looks like it was purchased in 2011 not 1942?

http://www.ebay.com/...item1c583064db 

http://www.ebay.com/...-/121738650843?

Thank you Norm.. I messaged the seller about the MacArthur theory.. And sent him a history lesson. My question is was there fish scales in production that early 1942?

I just had to post this for you all to see, #1: it is unbelievable $25,000 (i offered him $2500) #2: if it was MacArthur's Parker it should be in a museum.

Here is what they replied to my question of authenticity and my offer:

The pen is belong to the father of my best friend. He is a pen collector.

The pen was bought from the US and you can see on the listing the certificate of the listing it was bought from.

He bought it from Dana pens in Israel and this is the most respected place for pens in Israel.

Its worth calling them and ask them for more information about this pen.

He bought it for large amount of money so I dont think there is a chance he will accept thia offer.

Thanks

- quadrone

David I can you help me out with this?

Just trying to find out if it were possible this was MacArthur's Parker 51? If it is it belongs in a museum!

Here is what I found on MacArthurs whereabouts in 1941 WWII: 

MacArthur was recalled to active duty in 1941 as commander of United States Army Forces in the Far East. A series of disasters followed, starting with the destruction of his air forces on 8 December 1941, and the invasion of the Philippines by the Japanese. MacArthur's forces were soon compelled to withdraw to Bataan, where they held out until May 1942. In March 1942, MacArthur, his family and his staff left nearby Corregidor Island in PT boats and escaped to Australia, where MacArthur became Supreme Commander, Southwest Pacific Area. For his defense of the Philippines, MacArthur was awarded the Medal of Honor. After more than two years of fighting in the Pacific, he fulfilled a promise to return to the Philippines. He officially accepted Japan's surrender on 2 September 1945, aboard the USS Missouri anchored in Tokyo Bay, and oversaw the occupation of Japan from 1945 to 1951. As the effective ruler of Japan, he oversaw sweeping economic, political and social changes. He led the United Nations Command in the Korean War until he was removed from command by President Harry S. Truman on 11 April 1951. He later became Chairman of the Board of Remington Rand.

Can I get you all's expert opinion of the Parker 51 "fish scale" on Ebay claiming General MacArthur purchase them in 1941 in Israel? What I found was MacArther was never in Israel? Here is the auction number please forgive me i do not know how to list the link:  ebay auction # 121738650843

here is the link :    

http://www.ebay.com/...-/121738650843?

There is language barrier there.  Some of Ariel's parts are original. Some of his stuff is reproduction. I suspect honest attempts are being made to answer your questions. The exchange is a bit entertaining, from afar

 

Regards

 

david

David, I was not complaining about the site I actually found a few parts I needed and I will continue to purchase from them.. The shipping is slow but the item will arrive..

I have purchased a few parts from them.. I never had an issue, but communication lead me to believe that English may not be their first language and when I purchase something from them I know not to ask to many technical questions!!