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#41 Pensee

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

Thanks, guys, for clarification. Good to know pen history questions not considered 'clutter' & no tar & feathering newbies!

Still probably get burned by occasional Waterman question but hey-- only way to learn sometimes is ask.

I've jumped the gun and have the first 16 mags online. Worth the price of admission for "Plewa's Klips" and everything else is a bonus. :P
JJ


Your post & what I just noticed in David N's post was enough to get me to stop putting it off & join PCA. 40 bucks for back issues of Pennant, Pen World & old Waterman catalogs nice bang for the bucks. Like cartoon illustrations ; )

...for now, if you want up-to-date Waterman knowledge, books aren't where you'll find it, for the most part.


In re-reading topic this AM...

That got overlooked. : 0 !

Puts a *real wrench* in considering book budget since main interest in pen history / pen collecting = Waterman.

Short list had been:
FPOTW - F&S
The Chronicle of the Fountain Pen - Martine, Leite, & Gagean
Fountain Pens United States of America and United Kingdom - Lambrou

Current sources for history (which will in turn help me narrow collecting focus:)

Your ref pages & blog
L&P search
FPN search
PCA library

Where else might I find 'up to date' information?

thx, everyone, for replies

--Bruce

#42 David Nishimura

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:59 PM

Sorry to rain on the parade.

Pen history is just like other kinds of history. Research results get disseminated first in informal discussions among interested researchers. Later, they get published in short notices or articles. It then takes considerably longer before they end up incorporated in books -- especially the case with books written by those who don't participate in or follow the activities of the research community.

Unfortunately, even though pen research is shared so openly online (a consequence of pen historians having no academic bastions or professional conferences of their own), hardly any pen book authors bother to keep up with it. Hence we see old errors repeated year after year, long after they have been shown to be false.

Paradoxically, many collectors follow the principle of the bigger the book, the greater its authority. This might make some sense in the academic world, but with books targeted at collectors there is no peer review, nor any editorial oversight.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't buy any reference books at all. It does mean you should use them critically.



#43 Pensee

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:12 PM

Sorry to rain on the parade.


Nah! Just helping me be an informed buyer. But 'errors' still source of concern. Wondering how 'glaring' such errors.

Good example might be here. franken-nib-feed (Poor pen! Looks like someone put a dip nib on a carved up feed or something!)

Am sure most books would agree on objective information (what 0515 POC meant) but would they agree on something *subjective* like, "This pen & nib/feed combination is very rare & highly prized by collectors. Worth x dollars"

At my level of knowledge I might spot an error in the former, but wouldn't have a clue as to the latter.

So goal for book(s) is general collecting tips/guidelines and hopefully more in depth info about LEW Co. than can be found in catalogs & so on. (Can always ask here for opinions about value & how common or scarce.)

Pen history is just like other kinds of history. Research results get disseminated first in informal discussions among interested researchers. Later, they get published in short notices or articles. It then takes considerably longer before they end up incorporated in books -- especially the case with books written by those who don't participate in or follow the activities of the research community.


That's where researching Waterman history as hobby gets a little frustrating. *Where* are these on-line discussions, notices, or articles to help improve my knowledge beyond just the surface!

Unfortunately, even though pen research is shared so openly online (a consequence of pen historians having no academic bastions or professional conferences of their own), hardly any pen book authors bother to keep up with it. Hence we see old errors repeated year after year, long after they have been shown to be false.

Paradoxically, many collectors follow the principle of the bigger the book, the greater its authority. This might make some sense in the academic world, but with books targeted at collectors there is no peer review, nor any editorial oversight.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't buy any reference books at all. It does mean you should use them critically.


No *editors*? Was taught in English comp every writer needs a good editor. Part of the process. Publisher doesn't assign editor? Books vanity publishing if writer has the cash?

Use them critically indeed!

Thanks as always David.

You always seem to come through-- not only for odd questions like imprints on feeds-- but now you've also helped me understand what the good doctor meant when he too cautioned, "errors abound."

--Bruce

#44 david i

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

Nah! Just helping me be an informed buyer. But 'errors' still source of concern. Wondering how 'glaring' such errors.
SNIP


--Bruce


Collecting old items, as with many skilled trades, requires an apprenticeship. No matter how much I might have read about Medicine, textbooks could not have made me a physician. Collectors today are blessed with the internet. Some of the trial and error can be minimized, and the apprenticeship-journeyman course can to a degree see mentors in e-space rather than require attendance , though still the hands-on adds something special.

It is good to read a lot. Better, to attend pen shows and hang with experienced collectors. Read articles in pen mags which sometimes are more focused than general books. Get original catalogues, and read them closely. And, in face of all that, prepare to make mistakes. I certainly still do ;)

regards

d
David R. Isaacson MD. Website: VACUMANIA.com for quality old pens with full warranty.
Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#45 David Nishimura

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

That's where researching Waterman history as hobby gets a little frustrating. *Where* are these on-line discussions, notices, or articles to help improve my knowledge beyond just the surface!

Google is your friend. And when you find useful information, copy it and bookmark it.


No *editors*? Was taught in English comp every writer needs a good editor. Part of the process. Publisher doesn't assign editor? Books vanity publishing if writer has the cash?

Needs, yes. Gets, no.

Most pen books are either self-published or published by presses or divisions of presses devoted to collectibles, where editing is basically nonexistent.



#46 Pensee

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

Collecting old items, as with many skilled trades, requires an apprenticeship. No matter how much I might have read about Medicine, textbooks could not have made me a physician. Collectors today are blessed with the internet. Some of the trial and error can be minimized, and the apprenticeship-journeyman course can to a degree see mentors in e-space rather than require attendance , though still the hands-on adds something special.

It is good to read a lot. Better, to attend pen shows and hang with experienced collectors. Read articles in pen mags which sometimes are more focused than general books. Get original catalogues, and read them closely. And, in face of all that, prepare to make mistakes. I certainly still do ;)

regards

d


Med school & actual practice-- yes imagine that's quite a difference!

Earning a master's in mental health/behavioral psych was real eye opener-- book learning versus internship. No amount of theory & 'role playing' can prepare for real world & real people w/real problems.

Long way of saying *finally* getting it through thick skull about what you guys have been trying to tell me about talking to people & seeing pens 1st hand. ; )

At least I have list of books which is more than had before posting.

Google is your friend. And when you find useful information, copy it and bookmark it.

Needs, yes. Gets, no.

Most pen books are either self-published or published by presses or divisions of presses devoted to collectibles, where editing is basically nonexistent.


Recently stumbled upon google books w/some interesting material courtesy rss feed. So yes, bookmark such finds for future reading.

Regards editing-- will take a former editor's word for it-- but still find that amazing. Even professional writers always have an editor for clarity & so on. Maybe pen collecting books are what business might call 'relegated market.' Not cost effective to pay editors-- who knows...

Anyway, thanks to all who replied. Learned far more than bargained for-- even a little about repair issues!

--Bruce

#47 penpalace

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:35 PM

any reference books out there for italian pens from the 20's-40's?

#48 vintage penman

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:44 PM

Letizia Jacopini has written pretty much the definitive book on the Italian pen industry.

#49 brando090

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:49 AM

How does the paper back copy of Waterman Past and Present compare to the hardcover edition?

#50 david i

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:56 AM

How does the paper back copy of Waterman Past and Present compare to the hardcover edition?


Less effective when thrown at someone's head...

-d
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Email: isaacson@frontiernet.net

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#51 Hugh

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:14 AM


How does the paper back copy of Waterman Past and Present compare to the hardcover edition?


Less effective when thrown at someone's head...

-d


Wrong (partially anyway )....only less effective when thrown at and hitting someone's head....with the added advantage of less non intended damage if missing the a fore mentioned head....Posted Image

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#52 JonSzanto

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:18 PM

Paperbacks tend to flair open in flight. Paper cuts should not be discounted.

#53 brando090

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

There are less pages, meaning less information... correct? Do you guys advise buying the hardcover, or is the paper back the same?

#54 FarmBoy

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:47 PM

There are less pages, meaning less information... correct? Do you guys advise buying the hardcover, or is the paper back the same?


Less effective when thrown at someone's head...

Just guessing that because KE = 0.5*m(v*2) it is less effective.

FB

#55 J.R.

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

Fountain Pens of the World is also rather dated now but good if you want (some) information and pictures of pens worldwide. If however you don't mind restricting yourself to pens of the USA & UK, Lambrou's later volume 'Fountain Pens United States of America and United Kingdom' is a bit more up to date and has a higher text to pictures ratio. It should also be a lot cheaper and probably a better buy if you don't mind the more limited coverage.

Andy



I tried to find anything concerning fp's in our little library up here, last year. Net result - nil. So, they arranged an inter-library loan of Fountain Pens of the World, from Baton Rouge, LA. When it came in, I rushed home with it, and dove right in. I still don't know how that copy ever left the publisher's. The pg. nr's were in order, but the text on the pages skipped all over the place, ie., text on pg. 18 was continued on pg. 21 - then back to pg. 19, and that text continued on pg. 27. Etc. Etc. I carried it back and showed the librarian - we both got dizzy, trying to make sense of it ! I glanced at all the pretty pictures, but left the book with her, after half-hour or so. Disappointed, true - but I chuckled about it, for days after.

Take care,

JR

#56 Pensee

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:26 PM

I tried to find anything concerning fp's in our little library up here, last year. Net result - nil. So, they arranged an inter-library loan of Fountain Pens of the World, from Baton Rouge, LA. When it came in, I rushed home with it, and dove right in. I still don't know how that copy ever left the publisher's. The pg. nr's were in order, but the text on the pages skipped all over the place, ie., text on pg. 18 was continued on pg. 21 - then back to pg. 19, and that text continued on pg. 27. Etc. Etc. I carried it back and showed the librarian - we both got dizzy, trying to make sense of it ! I glanced at all the pretty pictures, but left the book with her, after half-hour or so. Disappointed, true - but I chuckled about it, for days after.

Take care,

JR


Inter-library loan... Why didn't I think of that? Good idea.

But Fountain Pens of the World has reader hopping pages like bunny? : 0 !

Glad I didn't rush out & order it!

Dinner on me if ever in San Antonio. Appreciate the heads up & saving me money.

thx

--Bruce




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