15 replies to this topic

[david i]

Greetings,

My apologies for slow posting rate (and email responses) of late. This week I traveled to Lancaster, PA along with Paul Erano who I'd invited down from Albany to participate in the purchase of a massive personal pen collection of mostly modern pens. Paul and I have partnered on several collections , and he has far greater familiarity with modern pens than I have. It sounded as though there were more than enough pens for both of us, and I value Paul's input in helping construct a fair offer, as I tend to aim low if I know nothing about any given modern pen.


After posting online after the Philadelphia Pen Show how I arrived relatively late Friday to the show only to find a table holder next to me had arrived with his personal collection of modern pens (his first show visit and with goal to sell), a collection that covered an entire table and had sold in twenty minutes to a dealer, i was contacted by email by a collector who held the similar goal to move an entire collection in one fell swoop. We spoke at length by phone. The collection sounded like one of high quality. Built from the 1980's until now, reportedly there were many high quality Italian, German, British, American and Japanese pens, along with a number of good vintage pens. I was... intrigued. We had a long chat about the nature of full-collection purchases, the economics of it, what's necessary to allow such a purchase. We seemed to be of like minds regarding this. All good.

Paul had been planning to visit Manhattan anyway, to hang out for day or two and to check out my new apartment. We decided to integrate his visit to Manhattan with a trip out to Lancaster, PA to inspect and perhaps purchase this collection.

The trip was successful. We had a fine visit with the owner of the collection, and as often is the case when penfolk gather, he had an interesting story regarding his life and his pen collecting. We spent a couple hours of the day simply discussing life, the economy, politics, health, philosophy of collecting, etc. A grand day.

We cranked through more than 300 pens, most mint-in-box. Sorting, compiling information, estimating prices.... the day was exhausting. Paul and I arrived at an estimated purchase price. Our estimate was about 10% different from the owner's goal for his nice collection. We quickly reached a happy compromise. How we managed to squeeze 300+ pens into my Honda? Well, that's part of the video tale.

Boxed pens included Omas, Delta, Aurora, Krone, Marlen, Sheaffer, Parker, Waterman, Conway-Stewart, Pelikan, Pilot, Namilki, Sailor, Platinum, Dani, Laban (some key models). Trays of vintage pens were more humble than the modern stock, but still were decent.

I've posted four high definition videos, with more to follow.

The first four videos present our trip and an introduction to the collection. Details and images are shown of 70 of the 300 pens, these 70 all Italian pens, mostly from 1980's-1990's. This is tip of the iceberg. I'll shoot shorter videos of the other pens in coming days.

Paul and I philosophize (or is that ruminate) about the challenges and charm of buying big collections.

This is the most significant modern collection either of us has acquired.

If you take the media links directly to Youtube, I suspect the images will be larger and will allow adjustment of video quality to the speed of your net connection. But, they can be watched right here at Fountain Pen Board.

Video 1: Our preparation to travel to Lancaster and our return home

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my3SjAQ-lsc&context=C31a4bd9ADOEgsToPDskJ4V7aS2uw1NHS2ldPLfStX

Video 2: Examination of half the Italian fountain pens. Dining room table is full. Philosophizing about the collection purchase process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbwYa0UrTU4&context=C34318d9ADOEgsToPDskIxcVZ0ZR3_eD3QxOTUQbbp

Video 3. Last of the first half of the Italian pens. Paul leaves for Albany

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF537iaikGY&context=C3b2f452ADOEgsToPDskLy-0sO8kVET5dWzD4pXtLx

Video 4: The second half of the Italian pens. 70 of the 300 pens now shown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lgkmOfYeXs&context=C378003cADOEgsToPDskLlEYy1AcFw77Cs2ds1B9ts

During the next few days I will post brief videos showing other pens from this collection: Pelikan-- including the complete(?) "cities" series--, Pilot, Namiki, Platinum, Sailor, Dani, Sheaffer, Parker, Waterman, Conway-Stewart and more.

Stay tuned.


Comments and questions are invited.

regards

David

[Hugh]

Thanks David and Paul, knowing "zip" about Italian pens I found the videos most enlightening . I can well understand your excitement with this "find"

Regards
Hugh

[Shadow Wave]

Thanks for the video. A few comments:

1. I didn't know it was pronounced Eray-no. I'd always said E-rahno.

2. Paul is one of the true gentlemen of the hobby. I have no doubt that the collector got as square a deal from Paul as he could get anywhere.

3. For the millionth time, I realize I have to get rid of some of my pens.

[david i]

Thanks for the video. A few comments:

1. I didn't know it was pronounced Eray-no. I'd always said E-rahno.

2. Paul is one of the true gentlemen of the hobby. I have no doubt that the collector got as square a deal from Paul as he could get anywhere.

3. For the millionth time, I realize I have to get rid of some of my pens.

Hi Shadow.

I hear you about "too many pens". But... i keep adding 'em anyway

There's an article or three lurking in, "how does one best end his collecting career". No joke.

Paul's last name does appear in English to have the latter pronunciation, but we gotta let the guy choose how to say his name.

While I figure you didn't mean anything by the omission , please note the seller got a square deal from both of us, not just from Paul

In fact, the seller approached me for the deal in part because we had done business in the past. I dragged Paul into it for the reasons noted in the opening post. I would partner with Paul anytime on a pen deal (and we have done that several times). We work well together.

Regards

David

[sloegin]

The first video is hilarious!

I agree about the stupid boxes. They have to justify their limited edition prices and artificial market some way. Extravagant, gaudy packaging seems to be par for the course.

Nice haul!

[Shadow Wave]

There's an article or three lurking in, "how does one best end his collecting career". No joke.

Ending it as this seller did is a pretty traumatic step. I'd be happy to get a start on just cutting it down.

While I figure you didn't mean anything by the omission , please note the seller got a square deal from both of us, not just from Paul

In fact, the seller approached me for the deal in part because we had done business in the past. I dragged Paul into it for the reasons noted in the opening post. I would partner with Paul anytime on a pen deal (and we have done that several times). We work well together.

Nope, no offense meant or subtle jab intended at all. I just thought it would sound too much like sucking up to include you.

Plus, while I've purchased pens from both of you with compete satisfaction, I've dealt with and talked to Paul much more often simply due to the fact that he always attends the Miami show. The one time I got a problem pen from him he readily refunded the purchase price, which is not true of some pen show sellers. (There might be an article or at least a thread about that sometime, too.)

Thanks for the informative vids!

[david i]

Ending it as this seller did is a pretty traumatic step. I'd be happy to get a start on just cutting it down.

Hi Shadow,

Yeah, we see then that this does touch a key theme-- rarely discussed, perhaps for being something about which we wish not to think-- in pendom.

The owner did not give up all his pens. He kept a few gems for himself. And, yes, the trauma of giving up a long pursued collection was something the three of us discussed while we evaluated the pens. But, the situation is typical and is not bad/evil/sad. Someone has loving family and happy life and has descendants who no doubt would like a momento from parent/grandparent, but the kids aren't into the specified collectable. Having a couple nice pens has meaning. Inheriting one day 300-400 pens does not appeal. Most of us wish not to be buried with our pens. Most of us who care for family would not want children with no interest and with no knowledge of the pens to be eaten by the pen sharks to deal with the pens once inherited. There is sound perspective in letting go collections while we can guide the liquidation, saving tokens for family but not saddling them with a non-liquid and obscure estate.

The owner of this collection is a gracious and fascinating fellow. Paul and I both had the feeling that were he on the pen show circuit, he would have been a grand fit for our hang-in-the-evening cluster. He treated his collection thoughtfully, treated his family with care by overseeing a liquidation of his collection estate before it became an inherited estate, and he had the charm of philosophizing all day with Paul and with me

Putting aside the painful confrontation with our own mortality that occurs with contemplation of collection liquidation in setting of advanced age, also the notion is in play that liquidating a large pen collection often is far harder than building a large pen collection

While 300 good modern pens seems like quite a hoard, for one who collected thirty years, that represents one pen purchased less often than once a month. My own collection is about ten times this size built in ten not thirty years. Of course, most of my old pens are not at the lofty level of fancy Omas pens, but even so.

We really did have a grand afternoon, and the food for thought element played a big role.

regards

david

[John Jenkins]

Of course, most of my old pens are not at the lofty level of fancy Omas pens, but even so.

bullsh@t artist!

JJ

[John Jenkins]

I love to able to see my stuff. All those boxes would drive me crazy.

[david i]

Of course, most of my old pens are not at the lofty level of fancy Omas pens, but even so.

bullsh@t artist!

JJ

Nah, in this case its true. I have many nice pens, but (even if acquired largely by accident) the 60-pen Parker Parkette collection lacks the same oomph as a similar case full of Arcos.

And so it goes...

regards

david

[Shadow Wave]

Yeah, we see then that this does touch a key theme-- rarely discussed, perhaps for being something about which we wish not to think-- in pendom.

The owner did not give up all his pens. He kept a few gems for himself. And, yes, the trauma of giving up a long pursued collection was something the three of us discussed while we evaluated the pens. But, the situation is typical and is not bad/evil/sad. Someone has loving family and happy life and has descendants who no doubt would like a momento from parent/grandparent, but the kids aren't into the specified collectable. Having a couple nice pens has meaning. Inheriting one day 300-400 pens does not appeal. Most of us wish not to be buried with our pens. Most of us who care for family would not want children with no interest and with no knowledge of the pens to be eaten by the pen sharks to deal with the pens once inherited. There is sound perspective in letting go collections while we can guide the liquidation, saving tokens for family but not saddling them with a non-liquid and obscure estate.

All very true, and very well put. There are some people who would even throw old pens into a dumpster to get rid of them. Most people know this at some level, just as they know that having a will is an immense convenience for their heirs, not a talisman of impending death. As a lawyer, I always tell people not to put off making a will. But I haven't actually made one myself.

Putting aside the painful confrontation with our own mortality that occurs with contemplation of collection liquidation in setting of advanced age, also the notion is in play that liquidating a large pen collection often is far harder than building a large pen collection.

****

We really did have a grand afternoon, and the food for thought element played a big role.

Let's take it in a slightly different direction. Suppose that a collector (i.e., me) is in the position of vaguely wanting, but not financially needing, to focus his collection a bit by disposing of some of the less-prized items. Individully most of the pens would not be all that valuable (in our terms of reference; I remember how guilty I felt in 1995 about spending the fantastic sum of $95 for a striped Duofold from Fountain Pen Hospital); yet collectively, at retail, they would amount to a nice piece of change.

The mental stumbling block I've always had is the wide spread between retail (we're talking vintage pens, not new ones) and wholesale, and having to actually "book" the loss which has been theoretical up to now. How to minimize it?

There seem to be three options, all with advantages and disadvantages.

1. Try to sell the group all at once to a dealer.

ADVANTAGES: This would presumably be the fastest and easiest method for disposing of a large number of pens.

DISADVANTAGES: The ratio between retail and wholesale prices is reputedly about 2:1. There are understandable reasons for this. The dealer has to make a living, has large investments in inventory, traveling expenses, probably a website, ads in the Pennant and other collector publications. He is not a charity. Still, for the collector, it means potentially leaving a large sum of money on the table.

Also, there being few or no "trophy" pens on offer, most dealers would not be enthusiastic about taking on a sizable stock of fairly common items.

2. Get a table at a pen show and try to flog them yourself.

ADVANTAGES: Throngs of aficianados (clumps of chumps? ) primed to pay... if not retail, more than rock bottom. Possibilty of a bidding war between dealers or other collectors who just have to have your stuff (not too likely). Enjoying the pen show atmosphere, learning something new.

DISADVANTAGES: Cost of travel, table and hotel must be deducted from anything you make. Possibility you won't sell enough to break even. Relatively large investment of time for questionable return. Box lunches. Huge risk you see something at show you have to have, and come home with it.

3. Fleabay.

ADVANTAGES: Relatively small cost. Can sell one or two items at a time. Might get lucky and have a bidding war develop (but its always the other guy that happens to).

DISADVANTAGES: Crooked/wacky buyer who claims non-receipt or damage and disputes sale. Possibility of letting pen go for a fraction of what it's worth.

Does this seem like a fair summary? Does anyone have anything to add from experience? I'm just spitballing here....

[david i]

2. Get a table at a pen show and try to flog them yourself.

ADVANTAGES: Throngs of aficianados (clumps of chumps? ) primed to pay... if not retail, more than rock bottom. Possibilty of a bidding war between dealers or other collectors who just have to have your stuff (not too likely). Enjoying the pen show atmosphere, learning something new.

DISADVANTAGES: Cost of travel, table and hotel must be deducted from anything you make. Possibility you won't sell enough to break even. Relatively large investment of time for questionable return. Box lunches. Huge risk you see something at show you have to have, and come home with it.

Nice outline

Note one can go to pen show, take table three days, and if having bad show sell five pens or so. Can take long time to liquidate pen collection this way if trying for retail-zone. And, if moving whole collection wholesale, then one is back to the earlier option.

regards

david

[JonSzanto]

David,

I've quoted the below in full because I couldn't single out any particular part. I've come back to this thread a couple of times, not really knowing what to say or how to react. But I just wanted to say that your thoughts below touched me on a very human level, and made me think - yet again - about pens and collecting in a new light. Very elegant thoughts.

Thank you.

Yeah, we see then that this does touch a key theme-- rarely discussed, perhaps for being something about which we wish not to think-- in pendom.

The owner did not give up all his pens. He kept a few gems for himself. And, yes, the trauma of giving up a long pursued collection was something the three of us discussed while we evaluated the pens. But, the situation is typical and is not bad/evil/sad. Someone has loving family and happy life and has descendants who no doubt would like a momento from parent/grandparent, but the kids aren't into the specified collectable. Having a couple nice pens has meaning. Inheriting one day 300-400 pens does not appeal. Most of us wish not to be buried with our pens. Most of us who care for family would not want children with no interest and with no knowledge of the pens to be eaten by the pen sharks to deal with the pens once inherited. There is sound perspective in letting go collections while we can guide the liquidation, saving tokens for family but not saddling them with a non-liquid and obscure estate.

The owner of this collection is a gracious and fascinating fellow. Paul and I both had the feeling that were he on the pen show circuit, he would have been a grand fit for our hang-in-the-evening cluster. He treated his collection thoughtfully, treated his family with care by overseeing a liquidation of his collection estate before it became an inherited estate, and he had the charm of philosophizing all day with Paul and with me

Putting aside the painful confrontation with our own mortality that occurs with contemplation of collection liquidation in setting of advanced age, also the notion is in play that liquidating a large pen collection often is far harder than building a large pen collection

While 300 good modern pens seems like quite a hoard, for one who collected thirty years, that represents one pen purchased less often than once a month. My own collection is about ten times this size built in ten not thirty years. Of course, most of my old pens are not at the lofty level of fancy Omas pens, but even so.

We really did have a grand afternoon, and the food for thought element played a big role.

[penmanila]

that's very probably how i'll let go of my own modest hoard of about 150 pens, most of them vacs, when the time comes--keep a few mementoes for family members who might appreciate a pen or two, then sell off the rest of the lot to someone who'll offer a fair price for them and who can look forward to making a reasonable profit on the labor of retailing them. better to settle these things before the mind and the body go

[John Jenkins]

I think I'll do a raffle at a pen show. You know, sell 500 tickets @ $100 each. Then pick the winning ticket out of a hat. That might be a fun proposition.
JJ

[brando090]

Where is the pen list? I see a few pens that i like, but dont know if i can afford