21 replies to this topic

[david i]

I have a few Mabies in my personal collection and do buy them time to time for the website. In fact, I've skimmed the Moak book, but am overdue for a detailed reading. Mabie had major branches in USA and England (I'll discuss my Indian Mabie another time), though typically I encounter USA-made pens, particularly the mid 1920's metal lever fillers. But, when one buys collections and is forced to broaden horizons, pens... will... happen.

So, at the Los Angeles Pen Show one of the first wee hoards I bought was a group of plastic Mabies, all English. Naturally, three weeks later at the Long Island Pen Show, I found another. These are very nice, mostly pens of decent size. Gorgeous colors. Great nibs. The photo in fact does not do the pens justice (i probably should have used a darker background, which seems to let my camera do better with the colors.

So, here is some eye candy. Anyone with anything to offer about them is invited to do so, obviously

regards

David

[Hugh]

Hi David,

Lovely group !! That blue looks a big pen. I've a few although most like these 3 series are post war...rather mundane colour wise compared to the earlier pens. Great user pens.



Regards
Hugh

[FmrLEO_GJ]

I have a few Mabies in my personal collection and do buy them time to time for the website. In fact, I've skimmed the Moak book, but am overdue for a detailed reading. Mabie had major branches in USA and England (I'll discuss my Indian Mabie another time), though typically I encounter USA-made pens, particularly the mid 1920's metal lever fillers. But, when one buys collections and is forced to broaden horizons, pens... will... happen.

So, at the Los Angeles Pen Show one of the first wee hoards I bought was a group of plastic Mabies, all English. Naturally, three weeks later at the Long Island Pen Show, I found another. These are very nice, mostly pens of decent size. Gorgeous colors. Great nibs. The photo in fact does not do the pens justice (i probably should have used a darker background, which seems to let my camera do better with the colors.

So, here is some eye candy. Anyone with anything to offer about them is invited to do so, obviously

regards

David

Nice examples David.

I have been trying to acquire a Mabie Todd Self Filler in green snake skin but the current owner doesn't know if he wants to part with it.
Hope he does allow me to purchase it, along with a couple of lovely MB's... one being quite scarce on the ground.

Any information on this particular Mabie Todd would be appreciated. I have done some research, and have downloaded quite a bit of information, but haven't seen anything close... until this photo you provided David. The second one from the left is the closest I have seen.

[Malcy]

I have been trying to acquire a Mabie Todd Self Filler in green snake skin but the current owner doesn't know if he wants to part with it.
Hope he does allow me to purchase it, along with a couple of lovely MB's... one being quite scarce on the ground.

Any information on this particular Mabie Todd would be appreciated. I have done some research, and have downloaded quite a bit of information, but haven't seen anything close... until this photo you provided David. The second one from the left is the closest I have seen.

It looks like a lovely pen.

The hard rubber lever makes it a Swan Minor SM1 or SM2, the number indicating nib size. The numbering system is not easy, it could be SM2/84 or SM202/84 or some other variant. 84 is the plastic colour/pattern for green snakeskin. The model number is usually stamped on the pen at the end of the barrel. UK Mabie Todd usually applied stamps to the barrel, section and feed, the latter two normally read Swan. There are a huge variety of nib styles from EF to OBB and manifold to wet noodle and it is usually impossible to tell how flexible the nib is by how it looks, Even long tined Swan nibs can be the whole range of stiff to wet noodle. Servicing is easy, the barrel/section is a friction fit as is the nib and feed. The mechanisms are reliable. The black crown on the top of the cap screws out and includes the inner cap. This frees the clip.

All in all, UK Swans are great pens and usually vey reliable sweet writers often with flexible nibs.

I hope that this helps.

[FmrLEO_GJ]

I have been trying to acquire a Mabie Todd Self Filler in green snake skin but the current owner doesn't know if he wants to part with it.
Hope he does allow me to purchase it, along with a couple of lovely MB's... one being quite scarce on the ground.

Any information on this particular Mabie Todd would be appreciated. I have done some research, and have downloaded quite a bit of information, but haven't seen anything close... until this photo you provided David. The second one from the left is the closest I have seen.

It looks like a lovely pen.

The hard rubber lever makes it a Swan Minor SM1 or SM2, the number indicating nib size. The numbering system is not easy, it could be SM2/84 or SM202/84 or some other variant. 84 is the plastic colour/pattern for green snakeskin. The model number is usually stamped on the pen at the end of the barrel. UK Mabie Todd usually applied stamps to the barrel, section and feed, the latter two normally read Swan. There are a huge variety of nib styles from EF to OBB and manifold to wet noodle and it is usually impossible to tell how flexible the nib is by how it looks, Even long tined Swan nibs can be the whole range of stiff to wet noodle. Servicing is easy, the barrel/section is a friction fit as is the nib and feed. The mechanisms are reliable. The black crown on the top of the cap screws out and includes the inner cap. This frees the clip.

All in all, UK Swans are great pens and usually vey reliable sweet writers often with flexible nibs.

I hope that this helps.

Hi Malcy for your information. It is much appreciated.
I was interested as it was similar yet different to the example David shared, given the one I am wanting has black tips / tassies.

I keep my fingers crossed that this gentleman eventually sells this to me, in addition to the two MB's he has also.

[FmrLEO_GJ]

I have been trying to acquire a Mabie Todd Self Filler in green snake skin but the current owner doesn't know if he wants to part with it.
Hope he does allow me to purchase it, along with a couple of lovely MB's... one being quite scarce on the ground.

Any information on this particular Mabie Todd would be appreciated. I have done some research, and have downloaded quite a bit of information, but haven't seen anything close... until this photo you provided David. The second one from the left is the closest I have seen.

It looks like a lovely pen.

The hard rubber lever makes it a Swan Minor SM1 or SM2, the number indicating nib size. The numbering system is not easy, it could be SM2/84 or SM202/84 or some other variant. 84 is the plastic colour/pattern for green snakeskin. The model number is usually stamped on the pen at the end of the barrel. UK Mabie Todd usually applied stamps to the barrel, section and feed, the latter two normally read Swan. There are a huge variety of nib styles from EF to OBB and manifold to wet noodle and it is usually impossible to tell how flexible the nib is by how it looks, Even long tined Swan nibs can be the whole range of stiff to wet noodle. Servicing is easy, the barrel/section is a friction fit as is the nib and feed. The mechanisms are reliable. The black crown on the top of the cap screws out and includes the inner cap. This frees the clip.

All in all, UK Swans are great pens and usually vey reliable sweet writers often with flexible nibs.

I hope that this helps.

Hi Malcy for your information. It is much appreciated.
I was interested as it was similar yet different to the example David shared, given the one I am wanting has black tips / tassies.

I keep my fingers crossed that this gentleman eventually sells this to me, in addition to the two MB's he has also.

[Malcy]

Having looked at the pen again, I think that 84 is the wrong number, the green snakeskin 84 is darker. The colour of the pen in your picture doesn't fit in with the snakeskin/lizard colours that I am aware of which are:

83 = Blue snakeskin
84 = Green snakeskin
85 = Mauve snakeskin
86 = Silver snakeskin
87 = Blue lizard
88 = Green lizard
89 = Magenta lizard

However, with MT's numbering system, you never know. There is a garnet lizard as well which doesn't have a known number code.

[AZuniga]

Having looked at the pen again, I think that 84 is the wrong number, the green snakeskin 84 is darker. The colour of the pen in your picture doesn't fit in with the snakeskin/lizard colours that I am aware of which are:

83 = Blue snakeskin
84 = Green snakeskin
85 = Mauve snakeskin
86 = Silver snakeskin
87 = Blue lizard
88 = Green lizard
89 = Magenta lizard

However, with MT's numbering system, you never know. There is a garnet lizard as well which doesn't have a known number code.

Malcy,



Maybe you could help me to clarify.

The second pen from the left in David first post looks to be the /89 Garnet Lizard Skin as I found it in Hull’s book

I do not know if not having RG bands apply for another reference number?

In the second pen, although a little out of focus, Could it be, that the darkening is a matter of age? I have number and name information confirming your list but not visual reference.




I concur with you that UK Swan pens are great and very reliable, I use one every day…


Regards

[Malcy]

Well,

I downloaded FmrLEO_GJ's picture and removed the colour cast and it looks like a silver snakeskin (86). The pen second from the left is another snakeskin (large pattern blocks) which I have seen referred to as tan snakeskin but I don't have a colour code for it and I don't see where it would fit in the MT numbering system. The model code should (though not always) be on the barrel. Perhaps Dr I could give you it. It's a nice colour at any rate.

The model number could be something like 202 2=No2 nib, 0=no cap rings, 2=unsure but quite common

[david i]

Well,

I downloaded FmrLEO_GJ's picture and removed the colour cast and it looks like a silver snakeskin (86). The pen second from the left is another snakeskin (large pattern blocks) which I have seen referred to as tan snakeskin but I don't have a colour code for it and I don't see where it would fit in the MT numbering system. The model code should (though not always) be on the barrel. Perhaps Dr I could give you it. It's a nice colour at any rate.

The model number could be something like 202 2=No2 nib, 0=no cap rings, 2=unsure but quite common

Nice to see this thread blossom with useful info. I've been bad about posting lately. Just very busy, indeed have just started with new hospital. In few days I should be able to catch up on pens, and will check that Mabie for number.

regards

daivd

[AZuniga]

Thank you Malcy,

I found in the same Hull book a /90 Pearl Gray Lizard Skin, which is not so far away of the 'silver' you mention. If FmrLEO_GJ could find about the nib size or an eventual number we will get closer to which pen it is.
I continue to believe the one from David is /89 Garnet Lizard Skin because of the garnet lines, when we find out form him, as offered in his last post, the nib size and a number from the barrel we will get closer.
It is not the first time I have been stocked with this strange numbering system from MT, so the best is certainly to keep on looking for answers.

In the Hull book also (maybe you have i or know it: The English Fountain Pen Industry) there is a line saying: "A number of 'non-standard' Leverless Lizards are known to exist, including an L312/90 (Pearl Lizard Skin) with one-piece (slightly conical) cap/inner-cap and side slot RG clip, and a Green Lizard with a No 2 nib, without cap bands."
Just after reading your post I visited the Swan section in e bay I saw a Green Lizard Skin offered there, it is a darker green as you mentioned and a very different green too not pale at all.
In any event thanks for your response, it has been a step forward.
Regards

Edited by Penmex, 04 April 2012 - 09:15 PM.

[Malcy]

Thank you Malcy,

I found in the same Hull book a /90 Pearl Gray Lizard Skin, which is not so far away of the 'silver' you mention. If FmrLEO_GJ could find about the nib size or an eventual number we will get closer to which pen it is.
I continue to believe the one from David is /89 Garnet Lizard Skin because of the garnet lines, when we find out form him, as offered in his last post, the nib size and a number from the barrel we will get closer.
It is not the first time I have been stocked with this strange numbering system from MT, so the best is certainly to keep on looking for answers.

In the Hull book also (maybe you have i or know it: The English Fountain Pen Industry) there is a line saying: "A number of 'non-standard' Leverless Lizards are known to exist, including an L312/90 (Pearl Lizard Skin) with one-piece (slightly conical) cap/inner-cap and side slot RG clip, and a Green Lizard with a No 2 nib, without cap bands."
Just after reading your post I visited the Swan section in e bay I saw a Green Lizard Skin offered there, it is a darker green as you mentioned and a very different green too not pale at all.
In any event thanks for your response, it has been a step forward.
Regards

Hi Penmex,

Here are two examples of garnet lizard:

http://www.penfriend...rnetLizard.html

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...ksid=p2992.m753

Lizard celluloid has the small 'scale' size. The one in David's image, what ever it is, is a snake skin celluloid.

I haven't seen Hulls book, these are numbers that we recorded through observation. However it's no problem to amend our information as new information appears. This is what we collected for pre-war pens (post-war numbers are different), as you can see there are gaps:

36 = Blue/gold marble
47 = Black/brown/white mosaic
45 = Grey pearl marble
48 = Green pearl on a black field
49 = Black-veined pearl
50 = Jade
52 = Marbled blue
53 = Mottled red (rubber or celluloid?)
57 = Blue/black/bronze marble
59 = grey/red/purple marble (“Italian marble”)
60 = Black
61 = Red ripple hard rubber
62 = Red/gold marble
63 = Russet/jade marble
64 = Brown/Amber
66 = Emerald
67 = Amethyst/gold
76 = Green hatch
77 = Ruby hatch
78 = Grey hatch
82 = Blue/gold/brown spiral
83 = Blue snakeskin
84 = Green snakeskin
85 = Mauve snakeskin
86 = Silver snakeskin
87 = Blue lizard
88 = Green lizard
89 = Garnet lizard
90 = Pearl Lizard
93 = Golden pearl marble

[AZuniga]

Malcy,

Thank you for the list, very helpful, and of course the Hull book has gaps too.
And also thank you for the links, What a beautiful pen the Garnet Lizard is !!!
I am jealous not to have that in my hands...
Regards

[FmrLEO_GJ]

Well,

I downloaded FmrLEO_GJ's picture and removed the colour cast and it looks like a silver snakeskin (86). The pen second from the left is another snakeskin (large pattern blocks) which I have seen referred to as tan snakeskin but I don't have a colour code for it and I don't see where it would fit in the MT numbering system. The model code should (though not always) be on the barrel. Perhaps Dr I could give you it. It's a nice colour at any rate.

The model number could be something like 202 2=No2 nib, 0=no cap rings, 2=unsure but quite common

Hi Malcy

This photo is not colourised at all... and really does show it in pretty good shade.
It was with an old mobile phone I had then and it was very limited in megapixels, and I lost some focus in trying to get close. It didn't do macro well at all.
It is definitely NOT a silver pen, but green in colour.

[Malcy]

Well,

I downloaded FmrLEO_GJ's picture and removed the colour cast and it looks like a silver snakeskin (86). The pen second from the left is another snakeskin (large pattern blocks) which I have seen referred to as tan snakeskin but I don't have a colour code for it and I don't see where it would fit in the MT numbering system. The model code should (though not always) be on the barrel. Perhaps Dr I could give you it. It's a nice colour at any rate.

The model number could be something like 202 2=No2 nib, 0=no cap rings, 2=unsure but quite common

Hi Malcy

This photo is not colourised at all... and really does show it in pretty good shade.
It was with an old mobile phone I had then and it was very limited in megapixels, and I lost some focus in trying to get close. It didn't do macro well at all.
It is definitely NOT a silver pen, but green in colour.

Thanks for the confirmation, these colours can be confusing.

[david i]

Hi,

The snakeskin pattern pen in my original post has no model number on barrel.

Regards

david

[June H]

Thank you Malcy,

I found in the same Hull book a /90 Pearl Gray Lizard Skin, which is not so far away of the 'silver' you mention. If FmrLEO_GJ could find about the nib size or an eventual number we will get closer to which pen it is.
I continue to believe the one from David is /89 Garnet Lizard Skin because of the garnet lines, when we find out form him, as offered in his last post, the nib size and a number from the barrel we will get closer.
It is not the first time I have been stocked with this strange numbering system from MT, so the best is certainly to keep on looking for answers.

In the Hull book also (maybe you have i or know it: The English Fountain Pen Industry) there is a line saying: "A number of 'non-standard' Leverless Lizards are known to exist, including an L312/90 (Pearl Lizard Skin) with one-piece (slightly conical) cap/inner-cap and side slot RG clip, and a Green Lizard with a No 2 nib, without cap bands."
Just after reading your post I visited the Swan section in e bay I saw a Green Lizard Skin offered there, it is a darker green as you mentioned and a very different green too not pale at all.
In any event thanks for your response, it has been a step forward.
Regards

Hi Penmex,

Here are two examples of garnet lizard:

http://www.penfriend...rnetLizard.html

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...ksid=p2992.m753

Lizard celluloid has the small 'scale' size. The one in David's image, what ever it is, is a snake skin celluloid.

I haven't seen Hulls book, these are numbers that we recorded through observation. However it's no problem to amend our information as new information appears. This is what we collected for pre-war pens (post-war numbers are different), as you can see there are gaps:

36 = Blue/gold marble
47 = Black/brown/white mosaic
45 = Grey pearl marble
48 = Green pearl on a black field
49 = Black-veined pearl
50 = Jade
52 = Marbled blue
53 = Mottled red (rubber or celluloid?)
57 = Blue/black/bronze marble
59 = grey/red/purple marble (“Italian marble”)
60 = Black
61 = Red ripple hard rubber
62 = Red/gold marble
63 = Russet/jade marble
64 = Brown/Amber
66 = Emerald
67 = Amethyst/gold
76 = Green hatch
77 = Ruby hatch
78 = Grey hatch
82 = Blue/gold/brown spiral
83 = Blue snakeskin
84 = Green snakeskin
85 = Mauve snakeskin
86 = Silver snakeskin
87 = Blue lizard
88 = Green lizard
89 = Garnet lizard
90 = Pearl Lizard
93 = Golden pearl marble

Thankyou for this thread. It made me go to my pen case and look again at my collection. I have the same pen as David has, the third one from the left. I have found the number on it it is a number 58. My pen is a fabulous green/black/with large chunks of sparkly gold. It is also MINT. I noticed that you did't have a 58 in your list.

Edited by June H, 15 April 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[Malcy]

Thanks very much, I'll add that pattern to the list.

Mabie Todd & Co UK plastic pattern codes (Pre-WWII)
Plastic pattern
36 = Blue/gold marble
47 = Black/brown/white mosaic
45 = Grey pearl marble
48 = Green pearl on a black field
49 = Black-veined pearl
50 = Jade
52 = Marbled blue
53 = Mottled red (rubber or celluloid?)
57 = Blue/black/bronze marble
58 = Green/Gold/Black marble
59 = grey/red/purple marble (“Italian marble”)
60 = Black
61 = Red ripple hard rubber
62 = Red/gold marble
63 = Russet/jade marble
64 = Brown/Amber
66 = Emerald
67 = Amethyst/gold
76 = Green hatch
77 = Ruby hatch
78 = Grey hatch
82 = Blue/gold/brown spiral
83 = Blue snakeskin
84 = Green snakeskin
85 = Mauve snakeskin
86 = Silver/light green snakeskin
87 = Blue lizard
88 = Green lizard
89 = Garnet lizard
90 = Pearl Lizard
93 = Golden pearl marble
?=Tan snakeskin

Edited by Malcy, 15 April 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[Wardok]

Malcy

If you want a more complete list of colours, Steve did a whole article in issue 39 of the Writing Equipment Society Journal. There a quite a few more (it includes post war as well). By the way, your 36 should be a 46 - known as Oriental Blue - and I have only seen it on Blackbirds.
The Grey snakeskins comes with a selection of different coloured veins (or mortar if you want to call them brickwork) and come in various shades so that black veins tend to look quite grey, while red veins are more like silver and green veins are quite greeny. Neither my red or green veined snakeskins have a number.

There are other articles on the numbering system and the history of the company. If you aren't a member of WES its worth joining as you can get back copies of all the journals now.

June

The 58 is known as Marine Bronze and is one of my favourites

All this fun and we haven't even started to write with them yet!

Simon

[Malcy]

Malcy

If you want a more complete list of colours, Steve did a whole article in issue 39 of the Writing Equipment Society Journal. There a quite a few more (it includes post war as well). By the way, your 36 should be a 46 - known as Oriental Blue - and I have only seen it on Blackbirds.
The Grey snakeskins comes with a selection of different coloured veins (or mortar if you want to call them brickwork) and come in various shades so that black veins tend to look quite grey, while red veins are more like silver and green veins are quite greeny. Neither my red or green veined snakeskins have a number.

There are other articles on the numbering system and the history of the company. If you aren't a member of WES its worth joining as you can get back copies of all the journals now.

June

The 58 is known as Marine Bronze and is one of my favourites

All this fun and we haven't even started to write with them yet!

Simon

Thanks for the info Wardok.

Trying to figure out the codes is a learning process which sometimes goes in the wrong direction but is fun all the same.

Malcy