13 replies to this topic

[david i]

Ebay ad.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=380259946117

Look closely at the set. Might there be text error? Are there clues? If not in error (assuming the reader ID's the possible key error) does this make the set... even better?

Thoughts?

regards

David

[Teej47]

I don't quite yet have the experience to spot what you're seeing, but now I'm really intrigued.

Tim

[diplo]

Do you mean the line: "Fabric:Metal"?

[david i]

Do you mean the line: "Fabric:Metal"?

Hi,

No that is not it. Not seeking a subtle typo, grammar/syntax error. Something "glariing" regarding description of the item, something that impacts upon collector view of the set. And, yes, I realize the late 1940's pens don't yet have monster following. Still there are many collectors out there.

I don't want to drag out too much, but there is much to learn in this ad, although an argument can be made for one who is in-the-know not to share the trade secrets.

On other hand, I can pretty much assure you that the fellow who won the set is... quite... happy. Now where is that darned bunny icon?

-david

[matt]

Well, it's a lever fill Masterpiece set in gold fill or solid 14K, so not "gold tone." Blurry picture, but the lines in the cap pattern all end at the same point, - a GF Crest cap has staggered lines - so I'd guess David won himself a 14K set. Do I get the pencil for a prize? :-)

[Teej47]

Well, clearly "gold tone" is an indicator that the seller doesn't know anything about this item. I couldn't make out a lever, but thought I might've spotted a blind cap seam... but not really sure. What I can see is a fairly wide area that would correspond to the band if it were a plastic bodied pen with what looks like some very small engraving close to the edge... the kind of small engraving one might expect of a halmark. If I had more extensive knowledge of my '40s Sheaffer models I'd likely be able to assume that it's one of no more than a couple, and obviously either plated or 14kt.

Am I in the ballpark?

Tim

[Hugh]

I believe the sets a solid 14ct one(a solid gold overlay anyway), hallmarked as Tim points out. I'm not so sure it's a lever filler though, one possability is a TM Masterpiece but the lack of a clearly defined end piece leaves this option wanting. The other alternative is that this not a fountain pen but a ball point...and that would be unusual. So to make a call, it's a 14ct gold stratowriter and pencil.

Regards
Hugh

Edit to add: The more I think about it, the fact no nib was shown yet a number of photos, I'm starting to think the seller didn't really want to say it's not a FP......in this case bad choice!! This would have to be more difficult to find than any other variant. Cheap really ( if I'm right) given in 1952 the TM cost $100.

Yet another edit: I'm not entirely sure this is a '40's model either....everything says TM to me .....which probably guarantees it's earlier..'47-'50 then.

[david i]

Well, it's a lever fill Masterpiece set in gold fill or solid 14K, so not "gold tone." Blurry picture, but the lines in the cap pattern all end at the same point, - a GF Crest cap has staggered lines - so I'd guess David won himself a 14K set. Do I get the pencil for a prize? :-)

My post yesterday utterly was mangled by the Invision Power editor. Then, I was too tired to re-post. Let's try now.

Matt gets at least partial prize (no pencil but maybe a photo print of the set when time permits), as he is quite right about the set being Masterpiece, but with the caveat that Masterpiece implicitly is alloy gold, not "filled", though that alludes to the key ambiguity in the ad, the seller citing the set as gold-tone. While certainly the pen has a gold-tone, usually "tone" is used to describe items not of actual alloy gold. Tim and Hugh made some good stabs, too.

Eranowitz and I usually trade back emails (and tongue-in-cheek protestations of cluelessness- at least I think they are tongue-in-cheek) couple times a week, as each of us just keeps coming up with good pens a couple times a week... not complaining. So I tossed the ad Paul's way. While often he'll feign ignorance just to give me chance to get a'ranting, my response covers the ground of what was interesting about this ad for a "gold-tone Sheaffer set, in yellow felt wrappers", to paraphrase. Too, Paul has been around the ol' pen block a few times, but I'd guess the minutia of post-war Sheaffers might not be his favorite stomping grounds.

Paul wrote back, after seeing the ad

Per PAUL:

I would think that it is gold but if there is no marking at all I don'tknow what it is because I don't think that it is gold fill.

My response captures the details of this neat pen (i slightly tweaked the note for this post), showing I s'pose that knowledge is power in hobby hunting (no shock there), but how too one might be able to over-think a finding.

Per David:

Hi Paul,

Who says knowledge of minutia is not of benefit

OK...

1) Credit to the seller. She cites gold-tone which is how ethical sellers describe items with a gold look they either know not to be alloy gold (eg gold-filled, painted,gold plated whatever), or are... unsure if actually of alloy gold. I'm annoyed by the converse, folks who cite "gold pen" when the thing is not alloy gold, even if some gold plating 10 microns counts i suppose as gold. The right thing was done here , given the apparent possible ignorance of actual composition. Or maybe she's right and the thing isn't gold.

2) I, however, AM aware of details of post-War 1940's pens. There are NO all gold-filled (etc) models. There are only Crest (gold-filledcap), Crest Masterpiece (solid gold cap) and Masterpiece, proper (allalloy gold pen, hallmarked in couple places).

3) The only pens I've ever seen from this era to come in yellow felt cases for individual items (within the box) are Masterpiece and solid-gold-cap Crest Masterpiece. She mentions... yellow felt.

4) The pattern (limited view) looks Masterpiece-ish, and and lever fill excludes something later (like misplaced 1951 TM Touchdown Triumph- the name for the all gold filled set from that later era) turning up in early box. Ofcourse set looks too fat for that too, but images can deceive.

So,either the set is a Masterpiece and she missed the 14k "bugs", or it isa heretofore unseen "Triumph" or all gold-fllled fat post-war, preTM-Touchdown pen. In that case it lacks metal value and cachet of "all gold" but would be- I assert- grossly better than a Masterpiece, on grounds it is a so-far unique and uncatalogued item. Either way,probably not a bad win at $260

Set arrived today... in its case... in the individual yellow felt wrappers.


What did it turn out to be???

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It is (am I happy or not?) a Masterpiece set, lever fill as expected, hallmarked EVERYWHERE as expected, with "14k".

Oh yeah, it is IF not fully/truly mint (have not yet water tested), then absolutely near mint in the truest, most strict sense of term, no marks, perfect section clarity, no name engraved... glorious, not joking.

This one is... magnificent.

I'm a happy camper.

-d

Latest update. I dipped the pen in water. No sign of ink. Appears to be a truly mint set. Have yet to fill it with water, but either way...

And that's the story. When home will try to photograph the set.

I have three other Masterpiece post-War pens, the result now of couple-three years hunting these for that... eventual... website update. Figured to keep one in permanent collection (how can one accumulate couple hundred pens from a given era and not plan to keep at least 10-20 in permanent collection, even if he is trying not grow the darn collection )


regards

David

[matt]

Neat! I missed the reference to yellow cloth in the listing (and wouldn't have known what it meant).

Do any of your Masterpieces have a white dot, thus circa '48 or later, when Sheaffer figured out how to apply it to a metal cap?

I found that same faux alligator case with a wider-band WD Statesman Tuckaway um, Tuckaway II set.

[Hugh]

Damn it!! ....when I couldn't see a lever I thought I'd "nailed" this one...good buy!!

Regards
Hugh

[david i]

Neat! I missed the reference to yellow cloth in the listing (and wouldn't have known what it meant).

Do any of your Masterpieces have a white dot, thus circa '48 or later, when Sheaffer figured out how to apply it to a metal cap?

I found that same faux alligator case with a wider-band WD Statesman Tuckaway um, Tuckaway II set.

Matt, the discussion of white dots in metal capped 1940's Sheaffers has budded a new thread, and the discussion has been moved there, where it can have specific attention. Do follow the discussion there...

http://fountainpenbo...-dot-evolution/

Regards

David

[david i]

Here are quick shots of the set. I'm away from my usual photo set up, so this is bit rough.

Nice barrel clarity. Dust/tarnish on the thread ring. Original yellow felt wrappers. The cords in the case had never been stretched.

regards

David

[Teej47]

Wow, that's really something. So what's that set actually worth (as in what it would go for on some hack's website)?

Tim

[david i]

Wow, that's really something. So what's that set actually worth (as in what it would go for on some hack's website)?

Tim

The whole wholesale-retail thing obviously can be a chapter unto itself. The 1940's pens have smaller following than, say, Snork, so sometimes under-price that series, though this might be changing. A well known retailer of old pens, with appropriate reputation for careful and conservative grading, has couple pens, not mint, some dings, names inscribed (which if neatly done does not bother me in theleast on a Masterpiece) running around $900 the pen. In this context ,this set would then be a retail $1500+ set... I s'pose. It is rather mint. Wholesale/lucky-find price might be $10 at the flea market. You are free to pick your own value in that range

But (yeah, here's the collector pathology), as I have now accumulated couple hundred 1940's Sheaffers for an offering, and just hafta keep around 20 for me, I'll likely keep this set for the duration, and let go the other three Masterpiece pens. So, i will not directly realize the profit from this set. On other hand, it is a wonderful find and wonderful price. I'd happily take ten more were they available.

regards

David