25 replies to this topic

[penmanila]

just picked this up on ebay, my first vac purchase in a long while (a long while=one month). wasn't really expecting to win this--left a shot-in-the-dark bid before going to bed and woke up to find myself the winner, but of what? nice pen for $138.04, but... is it an OS or a standard?

http://cgi.ebay.com/...27#ht_500wt_822



you'd think that with all my vacs (enough, but nowhere near isaacsonian proportions) i should be able to tell these things apart by now, but i'm experiencing a disconnect between what my eyes tell me (a standard) and what the advertised description (5-3/8" capped) suggests (an OS). the camera distortion doesn't help much--it seems to make this pen longer from one angle and fatter from another (or maybe the "fatter" is just my imagination). the nib seems a bit small for an OS, unless again it's the angle.

my favorite everyday vac is a burgundy standard so i wouldn't mind a backup--but i also have a lovely burgundy OS and would rather have that backed up instead! so what are we looking at here?

[david i]

just picked this up on ebay, my first vac purchase in a long while (a long while=one month). wasn't really expecting to win this--left a shot-in-the-dark bid before going to bed and woke up to find myself the winner, but of what? nice pen for $138.04, but... is it an OS or a standard?

SNIP

Hi Jose,

I vote... Standard.

You posted a single photo. Close in photography can suffer from what LITERALLY is called... "barrel distortion". Quite ironic, that is, I believe.

Barrel distortion (the photo term, not the pen term) causes straight lines to bow outward. In your pic there is enough barrel distortion (photo not pen) that the cap and maybe (eep) the barrel are... distorted... to make look more plump than in reality. Blind cap though seems standard-ish. I could not say for certain, and 5 3/8 argues AGAINST Standard model.

But, looking at the ad, the nib is narrow at base and has 7 feathers, not 9, if I' m counting properly. Too the pen in the other shots seems slender enough to be Standard.

Do give yell when arrives. Either way, seems a nice find.

-david

[penmanila]

thanks for the quick read and reply, david! that's what i suspected, but you're right, it's a decent pen either way. i just had to wonder where the seller pulled the "5-3/8" out of--maybe he/she read it off another ad, ha ha will let you know when the pen gets to me (or my sister, actually) in virginia. she's getting more and more experience in measuring these strange old pens.

[penmanila]

hmm, curiouser and curiouser... i just emailed the seller to ask her to double-check the capped length, and she says it is 5-3/8" it's gonna be a long week....

[John Jenkins]

The occasional OS is lurking out there. This one ended up at $204. It has a replacement black section & Parker USA arrow nib. But the nib is that so unexpected & surprising Vac flex monster.

[NABodie]

I watched this one but never could decide what I thought it was.

[penmanila]

mystery solved (i think)! the pen's now with my sister in virginia, and i won't get to see it until i visit her next month, but as soon as it arrived i had her measure then pen (it was 5-3/8", all right) and take some quick-and-dirty shots with her iphone, and here they are:


 Vac1.JPG   58.66KB   39 downloads
 Vac2.JPG   56.24KB   37 downloads

before i say what i think it is (not an OS, i'm afraid--seems too slender for that, and it's not a lockdown filler), anyone among us vac nuts care to take a stab? note the long blind cap and the speedline filler.

it's in very nice condition, my sister says. can't wait....

I watched this one but never could decide what I thought it was.

[david i]

mystery solved (i think)! the pen's now with my sister in virginia, and i won't get to see it until i visit her next month, but as soon as it arrived i had her measure then pen (it was 5-3/8", all right) and take some quick-and-dirty shots with her iphone, and here they are:



before i say what i think it is (not an OS, i'm afraid--seems too slender for that, and it's not a lockdown filler), anyone among us vac nuts care to take a stab? note the long blind cap and the speedline filler.

it's in very nice condition, my sister says. can't wait....

Ahhh. possibly the rare 1.5th generation Vac, but seems short for that, and those generally have 1939 code.

Interesting.

d

[penmanila]

what 1.5th gen vac? i didn't even know there was one. some enlightenment, por favor! and pics, should you have any? many thanks in advance.

Ahhh. possibly the rare 1.5th generation Vac, but seems short for that, and those generally have 1939 code.

Interesting.

d

[david i]

what 1.5th gen vac? i didn't even know there was one. some enlightenment, por favor! and pics, should you have any? many thanks in advance.

Clearly then that was not what you were considering

I can do pics, but with the shifts at work, catching up on mailings, and holiday looming, might be weekend before can post 'em.

regards

david

[penmanila]

clearly not--my suspicions were more modest i thought--and still think--that what i'm looking at here is a burgundy streamlined standard; having a black and an emerald one, i could see how similar the general contours were, although my streamlined standards both sport split-feather clips, unlike this red pen's first-gen clip.



in the meanwhile, i couldn't resist googling "1.5th generation vacumatic," and this snippet came up from a post of yours on the zoss list from a few years back (a comment in relation to a green vac being sold), and i hope you don't mind if i repost it here (if you do mind, i'll take it down instantly) as a starting point for my education (and that of many others, i'm sure) in this rather esoteric sub-variety. looking forward to the pictures and further comments, and many thanks in advance!

The green Vac has nothing to do with "maximas" though it is a rather
unusual model. The last of the lockdown "Standards", it typically is
seen with 1939 datecode. Having the cap and barrel threads of a typical
"Standard" (lockdown three pen) the barrel is of intermediate length
between a Standard and a later Major. Noting that those two pens are
about of same overall length (usually), the longer blindcap of the
Major (speedline pen) necessitates a shorter barrel to make overall
length the same as the earlier lockdown-fill Standard. Note that the
cap of a Standard will not fit a Major and vice versa. One cannot make
up this pen just by swapping caps. Upshot is that with the intermediate
length barrel and with the long blindcap/speedline filler assembly as
seen with your pen, the resultiing pen tends to be longer than any
Major or Standard and sometimes longer than any Maxima.

Given that the Standard is (as a lock-fill) a 1st generation pen and
given that the Major (speedline fill) is a 2nd generation pen (by at
least one appraoch to organizing these) and given that parker did make
a true 2nd generation "Streamlined" Standard which is different from
either of those and different from your pen, this pen indeed is an odd
duck, but likely a kosher odd duck- let's call it a 1.5th Generation
Standard, just to abuse the jargon as much as possible :-)

I've seen these as Standard Vacs and as Shadow Wave Junior pens.

Neat pen. Nice price. If i didn't already own three of 'em. :-)


so does this also answer the question of "what was the longest vac, capped, ever"?

Clearly then that was not what you were considering

I can do pics, but with the shifts at work, catching up on mailings, and holiday looming, might be weekend before can post 'em.

regards

david

[david i]

clearly not--my suspicions were more modest i thought--and still think--that what i'm looking at here is a burgundy streamlined standard;


in the meanwhile, i couldn't resist googling "1.5th generation vacumatic," and this snippet came up from a post of yours on the zoss list from a few years back (a comment in relation to a green vac being sold), and i hope you don't mind if i repost it here (if you do mind, i'll take it down instantly) as a starting point for my education (and that of many others, i'm sure) in this rather esoteric sub-variety. looking forward to the pictures and further comments, and many thanks in advance!

The green Vac has nothing to do with "maximas" though it is a rather
unusual model. The last of the lockdown "Standards", it typically is
seen with 1939 datecode. Having the cap and barrel threads of a typical
"Standard" (lockdown three pen) the barrel is of intermediate


SNIP

so does this also answer the question of "what was the longest vac, capped, ever"?

I imagine I'd have tough time objecting to the posting of good information... especially when I am the lofty reference

That quote does have the info in nutshell. And, yeah, the longest pocket pen Vac. But the Standards tend to be longer than 5 3/8"

Streamlined STandard is found with feather clip. BUT, contour of your cap, threads, section to me argue against that.

We shall have to discuss more when you gain possession of the pen.

Regards

David

[penmanila]

thanks again--i relish long, drawn-out mysteries, so this is going to be fun.... i hope!

PS / my sister says that the date code appears to be a 9. i've asked her to take a longer and closer look.... unfortunately she has a life of her own to lead, and very soon a two-week trip to make to lithuania and parts beyond!

[matt]

David,

Since the cap has a plain arrow clip and appears to have the chunkier outline of a first generation pen, is the subject pen the Standard shown in the 1938 Jubilee catalog:

http://barnyard.syr....ica/jubcat3.jpg

or is that pen still a lockdown filler??

Is the 1.5th generation you reference a pen with a 1st generation cap profile (and cap thread configuration), but a Speedline filler? A post-lockdown, pre-Streamlined, Standard?

[david i]

David,

Since the cap has a plain arrow clip and appears to have the chunkier outline of a first generation pen, is the subject pen the Standard shown in the 1938 Jubilee catalog:

http://barnyard.syr....ica/jubcat3.jpg

or is that pen still a lockdown filler??

Is the 1.5th generation you reference a pen with a 1st generation cap profile (and cap thread configuration), but a Speedline filler? A post-lockdown, pre-Streamlined, Standard?

Hi Matt,

The 1938 catalogue shows "just" a typical Standard.

The quote by me via Jose covers most of the ground.

The cap is typical first gen cap (for both Standard and Shadow Wave Junior) wholly correct to any first gen pen.

Barrel "looks" 2nd gen at first glance, speedline filler long blind cap.

But, the threads are not second gen. The section is not. The threads will not take Major or later-Wave cap respectively. The section and threads are first gen-ish

One might argue that one can put a long blind cap and speedline filler onto/into a first gen barrel, which would give a ludicrously(+) long barrel, which is true enough.

But the 15th gen pens are only ludicrously long not ludicrously+ long

Although the Waves are closer to normal.

Consider that the barrel/blind cap assembly of 1st Gen and early 2nd Gen pens are about same. But 2nd Gen has long blind cap. It necessarily must have shorter barrel. If you were to put a long 2nd gen blind cap on the longer barrel of the 1st gen pen, you get ridiculously long barrel assembly

When first I saw a 1.5th gen pen (my tern, call it... transitional...if ya' will), it was a ludicrously long Standard. I figured it was jut a blind cap and filler swap, which can be done.

But, it had the 1939 imprint... odd.

And, it had a star clip despite being first gen cap. Very odd, as first gen pens "never" had star clips (one would have to swap one in from Maxima to do this as a collector).

And, on CAREFUL inspection the barrel was not quite as long as the long 2nd gen barrel but not quite as short as 1st gen barrels, It was intermediate size.

And, the game began....

-d

[penmanila]

ah, so the key is the barrel length, then?... one more small detail to toss into the simmering pot: the date code is a 9, all right, with the three dots (before, under, and after).

[penmanila]

finally, i have the pen in hand. here's a couple of fresh pics:





interestingly enough, another (green) vac i got with it turned out to be a real streamlined standard, which i thought the red vac was:



take note that the red vac has the same long blind cap as the streamlined standard; however, it has a three-banded first-gen cap--and the two caps are not interchangeable, the red one being wider at the mouth:



and i was happy to find a little bonus that came with the $41 streamlined standard:



but back to the burgundy vac--what have we here? certainly not an OS, but neither a "standard standard" nor a streamlined standard!

[david i]

finally, i have the pen in hand.

SNIP

but back to the burgundy vac--what have we here? certainly not an OS, but neither a "standard standard" nor a streamlined standard!

Hi Jose,

Again, a "1.5th Gen" pen is suspected, especially with the date. I really need to finish my book one of these days.

Check the barrel length (remove the blind cap) against a typical Standard and typical early (1937) Major. If the red pen has intermediate length (might be just few mm either way)-- which I suspect given its overall length just bit longer than your green pen, then... there we go.

d

[penmanila]

hi, david--i have neither a typical standard or early major on hand, since i'm on the road, but i compared the burgundy vac with my green streamlined standard, barrel for barrel, and the red barrel is appreciably longer than the green one (noting that the SS has a replacement plastic filler). will do the other comparisons when i go home to manila two weeks hence

Hi Jose,

Again, a "1.5th Gen" pen is suspected, especially with the date. I really need to finish my book one of these days.

Check the barrel length (remove the blind cap) against a typical Standard and typical early (1937) Major. If the red pen has intermediate length (might be just few mm either way)-- which I suspect given its overall length just bit longer than your green pen, then... there we go.

d

[david i]

hi, david--i have neither a typical standard or early major on hand, since i'm on the road, but i compared the burgundy vac with my green streamlined standard, barrel for barrel, and the red barrel is appreciably longer than the green one (noting that the SS has a replacement plastic filler). will do the other comparisons when i go home to manila two weeks hence

Keep in mind the Standard should have longer barrel than Streamlined Standard or Major.

Makes sense. The overall barrel/section/blind cap assembly for 1st Gen and early 2nd Gen pens are about same length, but the 2nd gen pen has much longer blind cap. Would have to have shorter barrel.

But, if your red pen had barrel same length as the 2nd gen green, then it would be... really... long with that long blind cap in place.

The 1.5th gen pens tend to be long., at least in high line models, often longer than Maxima, but they are NOT as long as would result from putting a long blind cap on typical standard barrel. Thus the barrels for these pens, when found "correct", tend to be intermediate length, which is pretty good proof-of-model.

-d