35 replies to this topic

[BrianMcQueen]

Having picked up both of the pens pictured below in the last couple of days, I thought I'd start a topic about them. We have played similar games to this before, but I've seen several new folks join the board recently, so maybe they have not yet seen these.

Take some guesses, new folks, at what the special features are of these seemingly regular pens.

[david i]

Having picked up both of the pens pictured below in the last couple of days, I thought I'd start a topic about them. We have played similar games to this before, but I've seen several new folks join the board recently, so maybe they have not yet seen these.

Take some guesses, new folks, at what the special features are of these seemingly regular pens.

Nce pen pair. I won't blab the spcial findings, though the finding are pretty special.

You plan to bring the Waterman telescope cap pen to Raleigh?

regards

david

[welch]

The bottom pen looks like a beautiful Vac. I bought a gray marble vac from David I a couple of years ago...gave to my father to replace the gray marble Vac that my mother gave him when he was sent to a carrier in the Pacific abou 1943...a pen I found in a desk and smashed when I was about three.

Except that clip is not an arrow. A Duofold left-over clip on a Vac? No, that doesn't make sense because Parker should have been building their cross-parts pens around 1947...using leftover parts from one discontinued model to make another model.

The top pen, the length-wise striped Vac, seems to have an unusually large blind cap, at least judging from where one of the black stripes turns gray. Further, the red stripes in the barrel are not carried into the blind cap.

So...what's actually unusual?

[matt]

The red stripes are the now ambered clear stripes that let you check ink level, so they don't extend into the blind cap. But that's not what so special about this Vacumatic.

[FarmBoy]

I'm not so much into cap bands as I am into steps on caps.

[Marsilius]

I just have one "Duovac." The only other difference I can see besides the clip is the gold band design . . . the blind cap maybe looks a little wider than mine . . .The cap on the red marble looks like a different shape than I would expect, but what do I know?Ok, now I will go into my corner and pretend I didn't say anything!

[david i]

SNIP

The top pen, the length-wise striped Vac, seems to have an unusually large blind cap, at least judging from where one of the black stripes turns gray. Further, the red stripes in the barrel are not carried into the blind cap.

So...what's actually unusual?

Hi Welch.

The gray/blue striped pen at first peek might resemble the well known 1940's Parker "striped" Duofold, which could be found with Vacumatic's filling system also with button filling system.

Here is a classic striped Duofold

Without giving away the whole tale, what might catch the eye regarding the blue/gray pen in the original post is that it has the split feather clip generally associated with the Parker Vacumatic, proper, rather than the blade clip of the Duofold. To a degree clips can be swapped, but given the size of the blue/gray pen there actually is not an easy swap donor from the Vacumatic series. Also the cap-band ("stacked coin" with circumferential lines) is one not associated with the Duofold Thus, questions are... raised


More in the next post...

regards

David

[david i]

The bottom pen looks like a beautiful Vac. I bought a gray marble vac from David I a couple of years ago...gave to my father to replace the gray marble Vac that my mother gave him when he was sent to a carrier in the Pacific abou 1943...a pen I found in a desk and smashed when I was about three.

Except that clip is not an arrow. A Duofold left-over clip on a Vac? No, that doesn't make sense because Parker should have been building their cross-parts pens around 1947...using leftover parts from one discontinued model to make another model.

SNIP

So...what's actually unusual?

Hi again,

The bottom pen, at first peek, probably resembles a Parker Challenger Deluxe more than a Vacumatic. The plastic ("plaque on black"), the triple cap-band, and what appears to be a ball-clip (rather than a Vac arrow clip) are suggestive, though even there differences are present.

Here is a Vacumatic Junior in marbled pattern

Here is a Deluxe Challenger. Note the plaque-on-black color, a bit different from the Vac.

Oh, and to add the mix here is a plain (non-Deluxe) Challenger

Here is the first pen again.

Thoughts?

regards

david

[david i]

I just have one "Duovac." The only other difference I can see besides the clip is the gold band design . . . the blind cap maybe looks a little wider than mine . . .The cap on the red marble looks like a different shape than I would expect, but what do I know?Ok, now I will go into my corner and pretend I didn't say anything!

Hi,

The term "Duovac" I fear is nonspecific in the hobby. The striped pens most commonly are Duofolds (found both with the Vacumatic and button filling systems). Of course the blue pen is a bit of an anomaly, which is where things get... interesting

regards

david

[Marsilius]

Ouch and ouch! I stand corrected, having entered into the halls of the collectors! I don't know enough to know what I don't know on two counts! Good to learn.1. I did not know to call this a Duofold.2. I almost bought what I thought was a blue one at the the LA Pen Show (or a kind of peacock one which I thought was blue). I walked away and back and it was gone! Is there anther color that I might have mistaken with this as green and blue and gold together, or, if it had blue, was it the same one?Users are Losers!

[david i]

Ouch and ouch! I stand corrected, having entered into the halls of the collectors! I don't know enough to know what I don't know on two counts! Good to learn.1. I did not know to call this a Duofold.2. I almost bought what I thought was a blue one at the the LA Pen Show (or a kind of peacock one which I thought was blue). I walked away and back and it was gone! Is there anther color that I might have mistaken with this as green and blue and gold together, or, if it had blue, was it the same one?Users are Losers!

Hi

Will touch base on this tonight tomorrow. Heading out of Manhattan for a concert of cantorial music way out in eastern Long Island.

regards

david

[Marsilius]

Ooh. Pay homage to the spirit of Maurice (Moshe) Ganchoff for me. Would love to hear more about the singing!

[BrianMcQueen]

David has pointed out the differences in the pen that appears to be a proper Striped Duofold. What do you notice about my red and black pen that appears different from the proper Deluxe Challenger he has pictured above it? FarmBoy hinted at it in his post above.



Also, a note to David: Thank you for supplying these flat catalog shots for comparison. I will indeed be bringing the telescope cap Waterman to Raleigh on Saturday.

Another note: My 500th Post!

Edited by BrianMcQueen, 29 April 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[matt]

Ouch and ouch! I stand corrected, having entered into the halls of the collectors! I don't know enough to know what I don't know on two counts! Good to learn.1. I did not know to call this a Duofold.2. I almost bought what I thought was a blue one at the the LA Pen Show (or a kind of peacock one which I thought was blue). I walked away and back and it was gone! Is there anther color that I might have mistaken with this as green and blue and gold together, or, if it had blue, was it the same one?Users are Losers!

The three colors are blue, rose, and green (David's set shown above has much better color than mine done on a scanner). Black also, but not in the Duofold Sr size shown below, which also shows all three trim combinations, in chronological order. Again, these are Duofolds; the striped pen shown above is something...different.



As to the red/black pen, the stepped ends and triple cap bands are the clue. If you could see the clip, I think it might not even say Parker, rather a "house" brand of an old time mail order company. This one's pretty tough for a newbie!

Edited by matt, 29 April 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[BrianMcQueen]

{SNIP}

the striped pen shown above is something...different.

{SNIP}

As to the red/black pen, the stepped ends and triple cap bands are the clue. If you could see the clip, I think it might not even say Parker, rather a "house" brand of an old time mail order company. This one's pretty tough for a newbie!

Matt's pretty much nailed this one on the head. These two pens which, at first glance, seem to be a 1940s striped Duofold and a Deluxe Challenger, are actually not those things.

The pen which appears at first to be a Duofold is actually a fairly uncommon Vacumatic (can we say a Vacumatic proper?)


The second pen, which at first appears to be a Deluxe Challenger, is actually a Parker-made pen under a different name, Diamond Medal. I think the proper term ascribed to these is "re-badged" as opposed to a "sub brand" like WASP is for Sheaffer.

[Marsilius]

Ah, concealed evidence! So, a question: if you did not see the names, would you be expected to recognize that odd Duofold as a Vacumatic, like an old Doctor recognizing a rare disease based on almost common symptoms?

[david i]

Ah, concealed evidence! So, a question: if you did not see the names, would you be expected to recognize that odd Duofold as a Vacumatic, like an old Doctor recognizing a rare disease based on almost common symptoms?

Yeppers.

To quote an expression first used here at Fountain Pen Board, "Knowledge is Power".

d

[Marsilius]

Thankful thoughts that the world does not depend on my medical skill or ability to identify minute details in pens. Mostly at peace with the knowledge that in my own academic field, the world couldn't possibly care about the minute details I chase. And now I know more than I did yesterday, though who knows how much else I have forgotten.(This reply is also to Brian below!)

Edited by Marsilius, 30 April 2013 - 01:52 AM.

[BrianMcQueen]

Ah, concealed evidence! So, a question: if you did not see the names, would you be expected to recognize that odd Duofold as a Vacumatic, like an old Doctor recognizing a rare disease based on almost common symptoms?

Yes, definitely. That's how I managed to get them so cheaply. They both need a little TLC to really shine, but are pretty nice pens.

The dead giveaways on the Vacumatic are the feather clip and the "Stacked Coin" band. You won't find those on a proper Duofold. I was able to pick them out of this auction rather easily.
http://www.ebay.com/...cvip=true&rt=nc

The Diamond Medal was listed as such (listed as "Metal" instead of "Medal" but still should have been easily noticed)
http://www.ebay.com/...cvip=true&rt=nc

[Marsilius]

One more question. David wrote "The term "Duovac" I fear is nonspecific in the hobby." Does this mean that if I go around calling my lovely little red striped Duofold a Duovac, no one will say anything to my face, but after I walk by, they will exchange knowing glances?