36 replies to this topic

[david i]

Procyon wrote,

 

Instead of fading to an olive brown color overall.  In this pen certain parts of the plastic seem to have turned black leaving the green as original.  It is pretty much uniform over both the cap and barrel.   I actually like the look of this, but have always wondered what could have caused it.  I have a bunch more that are discolored in the usual way, but this one is unique.  Curious if anyone else has seen this?

 

 

 

You have touched on another aspect of Jade Sheaffer, noting again the color might have been used by Sheaffer > 15 years, 1923-4 or so even through 1940, even for flattops by some accounts, noting the last catalogue appearance for Jade flat end pens was 1930.

The pens in your pics are late production. The low set clip and the lack of a lever pin (instead using an internal lever ring) dates them to 1931+. Could be 1934 even as that is when round-ball clip gave way to flat-ball clip in Balance. Keep in mind we are in off-catalogue terrain already just by virtue of being post-1930.

 

Your pens are typical to the post 1930 flat-top jade Sheaffer cluster, and they do sport differences from earlier stock.

Besides structural (low set clip, internal lever ring), there appear to be color/chemical differences to the plastic as welll. Your three pens match what I wrote in with the big spread photo I offered above, when I wrote that the two OS pens followed by most of the pens on the right are late stock (not true for the back-butt Quill Pen though)

 

 

 

 

These late pieces tend, to my eye, to be lean a bit to the blue side, while the pre 1931 pens tend to have a hint more yellow to the green, and of course we just saw how some of the quite early pens have a habit of turning yellow (unless one believes they really started that way).

 

You mentioned the discoloration seen on your pens. That diffuse mottled blackening is typical to these late blue-hint green pens, unlike the patchier brown/yellow  discoloration found on earlier pens. Personally I find it a more appealing appearance.  I'd rather have a bright green (hint of blue) pen with dark variegations than the early yucky look of the pens I showed in the tray earlier in this discussion, the tray that shows one crisp color pen (that one a late pen again, with the blue hint, the low set clip, the lack of lever pin) among a pile of bad ones.

 

regards

 

David

[david i]

 

That is such a killer photo. Damn.

 

Though I just realized that this may be the closest I have to a "mini": I've got three jade Sheaffer flat-ends. Go me.

 

I'm suspecting that this site isn't really good for me.  I've always called myself a user, not a collector, but when I take a look through my pen cases (!) the story is starting wearing thin.  I mean, today I received this

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=370975059669

 

jade green standard, non-lifetime, early Balance that I bought with no intention of using it.  I knew the threads would have a problem, and I saw the brassing, but the nib, the color, and the price were good, and I had no jade Sheaffers.  This is a bad sign.  The next thing you know I'll be trolling antique stores, attending pen shows, buying free-standing pen chests.

 

 

There is a good chance Ron Zorn can expand the threads so the cap closes properly, probably at cost of $30 or so in addition to usual restoration fee, if plain restoration is needed.

 

Gem color pens of this sort in excellent condition without issues can retail $300. You have some room to play...

 

regards

 

d

[david i]

Here's a brutal bit of evidence, fodder for observation.

 

Is it possible the entire plastic of an early Sheaffer could be unstable such that it suffered shift in color, perhaps independent of light, ink, rubber exposure?  We think so.   This pen perhaps offers supporting evidence, though confounding issues might be in play.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

regards

 

david

[david i]

Thanks for sharing David, and you answered a question I hadn't asked yet... which was about the Univer.  I picked up a near-perfect Univer pencil this weekend and threw it in my collection because the jade was very nice.  Now I know it's really a Sheaffer.  Much easier to find nice jade pencils than pens if the gold caps aren't beat to crap.   

 

Hi Randy,

 

I'd be interested to grab a pencil to match the Univer pen. If not something you are heavily bound to...

 

regards

 

david

[Procyon]

My first thought is that it is possibly a repair for a cracked cap lip.  The original cap lip could have been cut off under the band, and replaced with an identical piece from another cap, which may have had different plastic stock.   Being from different rod stock, the new piece may have aged differently. Of course, you should be able to see this on the inside of the cap.

Edited by Procyon, 03 January 2014 - 08:06 PM.

[david i]

This is a very interesting discourse on Sheaffer plastics, I must admit.  As an interesting, and non-educating, aside - let us not forget the Sheaffer Jade wannabees -

 

In this instance - a very nice Blue Ribbon (NPP), below a Frankensheaffer:

 

 

Phil

 

Nice, Phil

That clip suggested National from Chicago even before I read the barrel imprint.

 

I have some nice Jade Nationals: Diamond Medal (for Sears), Gold Bond (for Montgomery Ward), maybe others.

 

regards

 

david

[Mike Hosea]

 

There is a good chance Ron Zorn can expand the threads so the cap closes properly, probably at cost of $30 or so in addition to usual restoration fee, if plain restoration is needed.

 

Gem color pens of this sort in excellent condition without issues can retail $300. You have some room to play...

 

Thanks.  I might do that if it turns out that its only significant issues are the threads and the brassing.  I didn't have a chance to examine it for teeth marks, gouges, etc., but I always check the nib first, and it looked good (well, I thought it looked great, actually).  The cap threads do grab a little just at the end.  With a new sac (silicone here) could probably be used as a desk pen, but not pocket.  Sac is ossified and partially broken up, so I don't really know, but I'll bet the lever and J-bar are fine.  I have a feeling this one will require extra special care getting the grip section off, but perhaps the sac has never been changed and it won't end up being that hard.  We'll see.  It might take me awhile...

[Mike Hosea]

I like it.  Sac-less at present (well, it has an undersized silicone sac in it, but it isn't glued in).

 

 

[Daniel A]

David I. wrote:

"Here's a brutal bit of evidence, fodder for observation.

 

Is it possible the entire plastic of an early Sheaffer could be unstable such that it suffered shift in color, perhaps independent of light, ink, rubber exposure?  We think so.   This pen perhaps offers supporting evidence, though confounding issues might be in play."

 

I tend to agree that the early Sheaffer jade was unusually unstable, and not simply in color.  Over the years I have seen unusual gaping cracks and latitudinal fissures in the caps of these pens, unlike any damage I have seen in other pens. I have a senior flat-top someplace that I keep just because it is bit of mystery that it is still in "one" piece.

 

dja

[Norm]

Color shift of the entire pen?  Hmm. Maybe that explains these.

 

[Rick Krantz]

I do know that we will be posting THREE great jade colored sheaffers (1 flattop oversize, 1 flattop/balance model, and 1 standard balance set) with awesome color later this week, likely in time for a Saturday update....

 

on the new website....

 

vintagepenmarketplace.com 

 

just sorta thought I would add that. I will post a shot of the three pens in question to add to the GREAT jade debate as well. 

 

Rick 

[rpk1204]

Hi David, sorry I missed your post on the Univer pencil - not I'm not particulary tied to it - only bought it because it was in very nice shape with great color.  Do you want detailed pics?  Do you have a number in mind or something your are interested in trading that you have extra of?  I also just about finished the restore on the Eversharp non-gold seal pen.  Turned out great, just need a sac (I ran out) waiting for a new supply to come in this week.  Maybe a two-fer for something you have? 

 

Randy

[Mastersmith043]

Wow, check out for a few days of travel and a thread really gets away from you!

 

I've taken my Flattop apart, and I have gotten the old sac off. Are the silicone sacs the best option for resacking this pen?

[david i]

Here's a very interesting Jade Sheaffer flat-end that perhaps even Roger lacks in his collection.  Take a close look...

 

 

 

regards

David

[Roger W.]

David;

 

I've got clip ringtops - two maybe.  I guess they just have added versatility.

 

Roger W.

[Fred H]

I learned at Philly that the clips on caps of flat-ended half-Balance pens end above the band:

 

 

It is possible to take good cap from a full-Balance pen to thread onto a good flat-ended barrel.

 

Fred

 

My tray of  Sheaffer flat-end pens in Jade Celluloid.

 

There is a perfect Transitional or Half Balance pen near right...

 

 

Edited by Fred H, 28 January 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[david i]

Hi Fred,

 

I keep open mind regarding the transitional/half-balance pens. They might have been made longer than first catalogued.

 

regards

 

d