125 replies to this topic

[AndyR]

Very interesting to see some of the closing prices of the vintage pens & pencils in the auction. There were bargains to be had, but a few of the outstanding 'giddy bidding' results that caught my eye were

 

lot 195, £280, a multicoloured Duropoint 28 pencil, probably worth around £40 if the condition is good

lot 218, £135, a green Duropoint 2R pencil worth around £10 - £12 

lot 224, £230, a completely unassociated group of Dinkie 550 pen & Nippy no3 pencil in a box for a 39 set worth maybe £50 altogether

lot 219, £230, a nice peacock Dinkie 548 pen in the right case but with the wrong pencil, worth about £160

 

Given that purchasers are going to have to pay 15% premium on top of the above hammer prices, then (within the UK) 20% VAT on the full amount, £230 becomes around £317 by the time you get the article home....

 

Paul's favoured ping-pong table went for £22, probably one of the bargain buys of the day!

 

Andy

Edited by AndyR, 18 September 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[Peterg]

Would have liked lots 215 & 6 at those prices but, with all the ifs and buts, premiums and cost of removal I decided it wasn't worth the risk.

[AndyR]

Looks like I will end up with lot 217 (blue/pink striped Dinkie Major), and at a good price, thanks to one of my collecting friends who popped in a bid for me. He also got 215 & 216 and some others, sorry Peter! The Blinkos pen looks interesting, it seems to be one of the few CS pens with a boxed lever.

 

Andy

[mawcatax]

FYI, I order the ping-pong table for richardandtracy.  It will give them something to pass the time now that there will be significantly fewer posts on FPN regarding CS that they will have to overreact to.

[Hugh]

The depth of interest in the modern CS operations is interesting to me.  I get that they had a certain style, but this can be copied by any custom pen turner.  Were the later CS pens using nibs and feeds of their own make, or were they sourcing CS-branded nibs from JoWo or some such?

No, they where bought in. Bock I think as far as nibs go.

[Hugh]

FYI, I order the ping-pong table for richardandtracy.  It will give them something to pass the time now that there will be significantly fewer posts on FPN regarding CS that they will have to overreact to.

 

Aren't they lucky, an extremely generous act on your behalf , just think of all the thumb twiddling that's been avoided !!

 

Oh, but how I'll miss those wonderful "look at my new CS that's just arrived"...

...the photo of the unopened package....

...the photo of the grand opening...

...the photo the actual, real, fair dinkum CS pen box...

...the photo of the raising of the lid...

...the gasps of awe and delight..

 

( you could feel the excitement, the energy flowing through from the CS forum even over the internet half a world away)

 

...the raising of the hallowed pen from said hallowed box...

...the baptismal inking...

...the photo of the first letter being formed...

...the photo of second attempt....

...the photo of third attempt...

 

 

OH my God...no ink!!...wtf...here we are doing an advertorial with a pen that doesn't write...

 

Regards

Hugh

Edited by Hugh, 18 September 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[AndyR]

Eloquently put Hugh, though I do wonder if you are safe yet!

 

I notice lots 103 & 104, essentially boxes and boxes full of CS branded display cases sold for a combined hammer price of £1240, plus commission etc. Why on earth would you want to pay that money for all those, unless you were going to be able to sell CS pens within them? I can't imagine someone using them for another brand, with the CS logos covered in sticky labels. Even if you finished off all the part-completed pens from the factory sale, presumably you couldn't sell them as Conway Stewarts if you didn't hold the licence to use the trademark? So is this another example of giddy bidding, or a man with a plan? With all those boxes floating around, rods of typical CS materials and the CS branded nibs also sold, I would suggest buyers beware of nicely boxed Chinese knock-off CS pens. But of course, they may still perform better than the real thing!

 

And talking of giddy bidding, I see Henry has posted on FPN that the 58 pens within the display case (lot 133) were largely crap (though I paraphrase slightly), bar a few half decent vintage pens. But the lot sold for a hammer price of £3250...

 

Andy

[JonSzanto]

Hugh is killing me!

[Hugh]

Eloquently put Hugh, though I do wonder if you are safe yet!

 

I notice lots 103 & 104, essentially boxes and boxes full of CS branded display cases sold for a combined hammer price of £1240, plus commission etc. Why on earth would you want to pay that money for all those, unless you were going to be able to sell CS pens within them? I can't imagine someone using them for another brand, with the CS logos covered in sticky labels. Even if you finished off all the part-completed pens from the factory sale, presumably you couldn't sell them as Conway Stewarts if you didn't hold the licence to use the trademark? So is this another example of giddy bidding, or a man with a plan? With all those boxes floating around, rods of typical CS materials and the CS branded nibs also sold, I would suggest buyers beware of nicely boxed Chinese knock-off CS pens. But of course, they may still perform better than the real thing!

 

And talking of giddy bidding, I see Henry has posted on FPN that the 58 pens within the display case (lot 133) were largely crap (though I paraphrase slightly), bar a few half decent vintage pens. But the lot sold for a hammer price of £3250...

 

Andy

 

Something doesn't "feel right" about the whole process, why would you shut up then offer the whole lot for sale with a completely unrealistic time frame and rush a complete dispersal? There has to be something at play here.

 

Let's speculate !!

 

The key may be the IP, perhaps Brand Cellars share in CS Global is about to ( or has changed ) hands. Now this would effectively wield a lot of say over the future of the factory to the point where it dictates the sale price. What's the best way to devalue the IP? Remove it from a product !! So are we seeing a bit of by play here to ensure who ever gains the IP has to start from scratch? No factory to buy, no dealer network.....just a logo.

 

Going one step further, seeming there's now a CS Ltd with John Sorowka at the helm would it be reasonable they would like to control the IP ? Maybe herein lies the seemingly sudden actions being taken with the liquidators acting with some guidance to "hurry up". Maybe what we're seeing has more to do with ensuring a hard road for whoever ends up with the IP. I hope this isn't the case given they picked it up for very little in a rather dubious ( but legal) process.

 

Anyway buying a lot of CS boxes would fit with scenario, so I'll lean to your "man with a plan" at present.

 

Regards

Hugh

[Hugh]

Hugh is killing me!

 

Actually it's probably the scotch....

[vintage penman]

Frankly, one needs to ask if the IP has any value at all given the dubious nature of the recent product range. Surely, whoever ends up with the logo would be as well to start over once more.

[Hugh]

I've wondered the same thing. Still visions of the (rosy) future often cloud peoples judgement.

[AndyR]

Amid a flurry of activity in the FPN topic, an interesting post from ItalicSplodge has apparently been passed by without comment. He / She was given a second interview for the post (back in June this year) of CS General Manager by a Mr Jonny Hick, who he was informed 'was the main shareholder'.

 

I already knew about the recruitment of a new General Manager, but what about Mr Hick? It turns out he was a founding director of The Brand Cellar, and thereby a director of CS Global Brands for about a year directly after the last administration.. But in June 2014, surely he should not have been described as the main shareholder in any CS related company, given the demise of The Brand Cellar - unless he possibly had (and maybe still has) a murky agreement with the administrators of that company to buy their 51% share of CS Global Brands?

 

Though he is obviously a wealthy man, who seems to like to think of himself as a 'Serial Entrepreneur', his track record of involvement in creating companies that last does not seem too impressive.

 

Andy

[Hugh]

Well it's certainly turning into a mystery puzzle!! The 51% of CS Global must be a key factor in the way it's gone (he says with great confidence...always rather risky...). On paper it doesn't show Hicks connected in any fashion but to be major shareholder means someone else is fronting for him. Given Cheshire seemed to be pulling the strings then it's his holding ( and probably Rawjis) that may have given Hicks the ultimate say. Would Hicks presence explain the sudden departure (booted)  of a few old faces? 

 

Looks like a waiting game now to see where the IP goes.

 

Regards

Hugh

[Hugh]

...having slept on it...more "conspiracy" theories !!

 

There are several unusual things from the start. First was the 2010 pre pack that involved Rawji , second the seemingly swift formation of CS Global, the sudden emergence of a previously unknown major shareholder in Hicks (we'll assume the information as reliable for the sake of speculation) and the swift sale of assets as well as sudden staff changes.

 

I'd always assumed Rawji led the pre pack as he saw a potential personal benefit as opposed to "saving CS" and this drove the Brand Cellars deal. Maybe the man behind the scenes from the start was Hicks who saw an opening to acquire a "dead duck" that would fit nicely into the Brand Cellars concept giving him a nice "little earner". Of course him openly owning it wouldn't sit well with Brand Cellars ( conflict of interest etc) so he uses Rawji/Cheshire to hold the shares for him.

 

This also helps explain the 49%/51% split in CS Global, why would the factory owner give up control of the IP ? it doesn't make sense unless you also have a stake in Brand Cellars. In which case Hicks controlled the IP and the factory all nicely out of public scrutiny.

 

Of course BCs going belly up was a major issue, no longer was the IP controlled and the business was floundering. Perhaps the last couple of months just one last chance to turn the business around with some new blood. I still feel the sudden sale though is somehow linked to the IP control. Perhaps a case of someone being just smart enough to out smart himself !! Time may tell the "truth" ( or a version we'll believe!!) but until then it's fun to try to put the facts into scenarios that are potentially possible. Strangely this one just has a "good feel".

 

Regards

Hugh   

[FarmBoy]

There is indeed a conspiracy.  This whole thing is being done to confound those guys at fountainpennetwork.

[AndyR]

Hugh,

 

I'm not sure I can buy into your latest theory, though the ip control must be key. I would expect that the CS trademark is the only part of the ip controlled by CS Global, the designs will still be owned by Plymouth Pen. I can see that, as the new owners of CS actively wanted The Brand Cellar to be involved back in 2010, giving them a controlling interest in the trademark may just have been the price they had to pay, hence the establishment of CS Global for this purpose.

 

It is of course possible that the original poster was confused (or misinformed) as to Hick being the majority shareholder, though the very fact he was conducting a second interview is interesting in itself.

 

As to being 'smart enough to outsmart themselves' that may well be true. It remains to be seen how the damage done to the credibility of the trademark over the last few years by the present owners affects any ideas they (or future owners) may have had about relaunching the brand.

 

Andy

[Hugh]

Andy,

 

Lol !! Admittedly drawing a long bow, a puzzle with a lot of pieces that don't seem to fit....yet. Still with these type of situations following the money and who can benefit often provides pointers and the possible appearance of Hicks throws a spanner in the works so to speak. I doubt the designs are as important as TM.

 

Iirc wasn't there some issue with the TM in 2010 and it's acquisition ? Still as I reflect on it the Brand Cellars deal came quickly, rarely do these sort of deals just happen in a very short space of time given the complexity and everyone trying to cover themselves. If I'd just bought a company and it's IP ( regardless of cost) I'm sure I wouldn't surrender control of the TM , maybe 50/50 but not 49/51. As you say perhaps the prospects of success overshadowed the risks, a calculated gamble that failed.

 

Regards

Hugh

[Hugh]

There is indeed a conspiracy.  This whole thing is being done to confound those guys at fountainpennetwork.

 

and ourselves....

[AndyR]

I note from one of Henry's recent FPN posts that Alastair was down at the CS factory today. Arranging collection of purchased items? It would be very interesting to know what they were. Ping-pong table for old times' sake? Or nibs, boxes, rods...?

 

Andy