26 replies to this topic

[snorkelcc]

Interesting thread !

I remember I have some interesting TMTDs when I saw this thread, I have just found them and took photos.


From left : Snorkel Statesman in Patel Blue; TD in Blue; TMTD Sovereign (?) in Pastel Blue; Snorkel Admiral in Pastel Green; TMTD Crest Deluxe in Sega Green; TMTD Sentinel in Brown; TD in Burgundy; Snorkel Sentinel in Burgundy



First one has a metal cap which looks like a mix of Snorkel Sovereign (pattern and “SHEAFFER’S” clip) the ‘late TMTD Sovereign’ described earlier (pattern and White Dot).

I don’t know whether this model is part of the Sovereign family, it was a Canadian model, also come with late snorkel Pastel Blue barrel with no imprint. I treat it as non-original pen as it is equipped with a made in USA 2-tones open nib… Any suggestion to the model of this pen if it has a Canada nib ?

Second pen is a Crest Deluxe in Sega Green, the cap and the 2-tone Triumph nib specified that they were made in Canada while the barrel has no imprint.

I have another examples of the Sentinel TMTD in Sega Green, both cap, nib and barrel are marked ‘Made in USA’

Seems that Sega Green is another undocumented TMTD color, it is a bit strange that late snorkel color was also produced in TMTD !

Last one is a also an undocumented color Sentinel, it has a Brown barrel, both cap, nib and barrel are marked ‘Made in USA’

TMTDs showing nibs, snorkel in the middle is just for the barrel length comparison.

[Hugh]

Hi CC,

The first falls into the Sovereign category and pastel blue is the colour I've seen numerous examples of making it (to me) the least uncommon , the second sage green is somewhat different and I haven't seen a TM TD in this colour. There is no indication that the TM TD ( as such the 1951 model) ran for any period of time into the snorkel era ( apart from my speculation about these metal capped Sovereigns and if they did I suspect a very brief time frame). Sometime after ~1958 Sheaffer appears to have introduced this model (see this topic)



The barrel is exactly the same as the earlier TM TD model and interchangeable, most seem to be either Canadian or Australian and these came in a range of colours including sage ( I have an Australian example). I have seen a US example (green iirc) but these seem less common. While you can't rule out these unusual finds (especially Canadian manufacturer ) I would lean to your sage greens having acquired barrels from these at some point.

Regards
Hugh

Edit to add: Sentinals in brown are hard to find, I recently purchased this TM TD lot as I don't have a brown Sentinal



Looks brown, seller states it's brown.....but burgundy when in hand ..still as it turned out better than the set I had , I didn't complain as it was reasonably priced .

Edited by Hugh, 30 January 2012 - 02:17 AM.

[snorkelcc]

Hi CC,

The first falls into the Sovereign category and pastel blue is the colour I've seen numerous examples of making it (to me) the least uncommon , the second sage green is somewhat different and I haven't seen a TM TD in this colour. There is no indication that the TM TD ( as such the 1951 model) ran for any period of time into the snorkel era ( apart from my speculation about these metal capped Sovereigns and if they did I suspect a very brief time frame). Sometime after ~1958 Sheaffer appears to have introduced this model (see this topic)



The barrel is exactly the same as the earlier TM TD model and interchangeable, most seem to be either Canadian or Australian and these came in a range of colours including sage ( I have an Australian example). I have seen a US example (green iirc) but these seem less common. While you can't rule out these unusual finds (especially Canadian manufacturer ) I would lean to your sage greens having acquired barrels from these at some point.

Regards
Hugh

Edit to add: Sentinals in brown are hard to find, I recently purchased this TM TD lot as I don't have a brown Sentinal



Looks brown, seller states it's brown.....but burgundy when in hand ..still as it turned out better than the set I had , I didn't complain as it was reasonably priced .

Hi Hugh,
Thanks, this is new to me ! I have never seen this late (or very late) model TM TD, do you have more info about this model ?

Sega Green is not one of the early snorkel colors, your opnion seems possible, I don't see any reason Sheaffer had to keep the transition period of late TMTD for several years until snorkel come with Sega Green... But as a collector, I would rather hope I got a rare sample of TMTD

It is very common that sellers cannot (or intentionally not to) tell the exact color, likes snorkels, I have a lot more Pastel Green & Pastel Blue than the other colors mainly because I was misleaded (or believed) those are Fern/Sega and Peacock/Periwinkle ...

CC

[Hugh]

Hi CC,

There seems little known about this "odd" model. No name, no production time frame, just speculation. The only certainty is it had to be made between 1958 (when this nib style was introduced) and 1972 (when it was discontinued), speculation places it probably to somewhere around 1958/60, pre the Target and early Imperials. These are not common so that also supports short production run and/or poor sales, my examples imprint also places it as a pre 1960 pen ( late Aust. Snorkels produced around 1960-2 carry a different imprint ) , at least it appears that way to me.

Regards
Hugh

[Hugh]

Might as well add a photo of a reverse trim TM TD here



Another undocumented pen.

Regards
Hugh

[david i]

I'm jealous

d

[BrianMcQueen]

And, a mere 8.5 years later, documentation has been found!  Here is a piece of paperwork that was found in a folder dated January 1953 with 7 other similar papers sporting Snorkel models.  Note that the paperwork supports the $10.00 price tag that Hugh showed earlier in the thread.  This must have been offered concurrently with the Snorkel models, since the paperwork was dated January 1953, and the Snorkel was released in October 1952.  We can only speculate why Sheaffer was offering this pen alongside the Snorkel models, but at least we now have documentation to support its existence, along with a list of available colors.