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Blissful Ignorance: Variants of TM Touchdown not seen before


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#1 Hugh

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 11:04 PM

Ebay sheaffer

Looking around ebay came across this lot, wondering what model the bottom two pens are? They could possibly be a touchdowns, similiar to some unusual touchdowns seen in this forum recently except these have push caps, at a guess early to mid '60's. South American? Anyway I haven't seen them before.

Regards
Hugh

Ebay image added courtesy of FPB:

Posted Image


Hugh Cordingley

#2 david i

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 01:36 AM

Ebay sheaffer

Looking around ebay came across this lot, wondering what model the bottom two pens are? They could possibly be a touchdowns, similiar to some unusual touchdowns seen in this forum recently except these have push caps, at a guess early to mid '60's. South American? Anyway I haven't seen them before.

Regards
Hugh


I had same guess when first spotted these. Caps seem Crest-ish, but hard to tell.

d




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#3 matt

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 04:01 AM

The clutch ring looks Skripsert-ish, but the third pen seems to have a seam in the right place at the end of the barrel for a Touchdown.

Too bad they're ending so soon, we could send Kelly G to check them out. They're in his and my hometown, but he's not there on weekends.

#4 Kelly

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 08:10 PM

Well - it certainly looks like I missed an opportunity somewhere along the road - either an estate sale or auction most likely. That's what happens when I'm out of town way too much. Oh, well.....

For what it's worth, I'm not sure who the seller is, but I'm also sure it wouldn't be too hard to find out.

#5 david i

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 03:57 PM

Well - it certainly looks like I missed an opportunity somewhere along the road - either an estate sale or auction most likely. That's what happens when I'm out of town way too much. Oh, well.....

For what it's worth, I'm not sure who the seller is, but I'm also sure it wouldn't be too hard to find out.




No worries. Images will be appearing here in a week or two. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

(i really done gotta get that dancing bunny icon loaded)

-d




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#6 Hugh

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:24 PM

No worries. Images will be appearing here in a week or two. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

(i really done gotta get that dancing bunny icon loaded)

-d





Look forward to finding out what they are. Well done !!

Regards
Hugh
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#7 david i

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 01:01 AM

Look forward to finding out what they are. Well done !!

Regards
Hugh




Well, let's not congratulate yet ;)

If these turn out to be looooow models, probably no bargain, but at least if something... odd... they will be interesting.

regards

David



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#8 Kelly

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 01:39 AM

No worries. Images will be appearing here in a week or two. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

(i really done gotta get that dancing bunny icon loaded)

-d


Some days you're hard to love.

#9 david i

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 01:41 AM

Some days you're hard to love.




Some???

-d




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#10 Hugh

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:20 AM

Well, let's not congratulate yet ;)

If these turn out to be looooow models, probably no bargain, but at least if something... odd... they will be interesting.

regards

David




Seeing what you paid...no bargain...but then I've never seen them before so that adds the "unusual" to them ( this grand statement doesn't mean all that much though Posted Image),at least 2 won't return much!! I think these might be better than low end....nibs are probably palladium (hopefully gold but....)...but I'd think similiar to to other ones we've discussed quality wise. The other thing I don't see any thing that makes them look low end either, "gold" cap, decent barrel imprint etc...especially when compared to the pen next to them!!

Regards
Hugh
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#11 J Appleseed

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 03:32 PM

Should I mention that the Tower was a Sears house-brand in the late 1940s-1950s (possibly later?). I have a few of these. Usually low-quality, but the nibs can be quite good. There is a really bizarre internal reverse-lever system that some use - similar to some Pilot pens, but with a different sort of lever - not well engineered, but interesting for it's oddity.

John

#12 Rick Krantz

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:18 PM

I think Sears used "Tower" to relabel items from other manufacturers from the period, sell under the brand name, for instance, they did it with camera's during the period, to name one, Asahi (pentax) cameras from the early 50's into the about 1960~ can be found labeled "Tower"

#13 Hugh

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 09:55 PM

Now look what I've found...

The other half!!


or at least they look like they would partner the pens....right down to the stickers...not to mention colour.

Thanks for the info re Tower John and John , I had heard the name before but always equated it with low end pens...

Regards
Hugh
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#14 J Appleseed

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 03:42 PM

I think Sears used "Tower" to relabel items from other manufacturers from the period, sell under the brand name, for instance, they did it with camera's during the period, to name one, Asahi (pentax) cameras from the early 50's into the about 1960~ can be found labeled "Tower"


Certainly - it was one of their widespread house brands, to celebrate the Sears Tower. I believe it first appeared in the late 30s - early 40s, with pens labelled "Tower Truepoint". Later in the 1950s it was used on lower-end pens. I have no idea who made them - the (plated) nibs and feed are decent if the rest of the pen iffy.

Interestingly, in the 1920s-1930s, Sears seems to have used a number of brands for different tiers of specific products - there was not, for instance, Diamond Medal pencil sharpeners or cameras. Later, they seem to have adopted fewer brand names with broader use (Kenmore appliances, Craftsman tools, Tower office supplies and cameras and some other things).

John

#15 david i

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 04:03 AM

Ebay sheaffer

Looking around ebay came across this lot, wondering what model the bottom two pens are? They could possibly be a touchdowns, similiar to some unusual touchdowns seen in this forum recently except these have push caps, at a guess early to mid '60's. South American? Anyway I haven't seen them before.

Regards
Hugh

Ebay image added courtesy of FPB:

Posted Image



The pens arrived safely. I've been bit busy so have been lax at posting follow up images.

These remain anomalous. I'm not sure where they fit in.

To recap:

Typical 1951 catalogue correct Sheaffer TM (Thin Model) Touchdown. Note the threaded section and the knurled celluloid (?) transparent gripping section

Posted Image



I posted an oddity, a thin Touchdown that closed looks rather like the typical 1951 TM Touchdown, but with the short Triumph (conical) nib seen around 1959 with Lady Skripsert, as well as with smooth matching color gripping section. At least the pen still has typical threads. That this was of Australian manufacture (iirc) left open possibility that this is an Australia-only model, essentially a "late" TM Touchdown, made for who knows what reason

Posted Image



Hugh pointed to further anomaly, the ebay pen that started this thread, seemingly a further mutation on the above theme, with similar short conical nib to the pen just above, with smooth matching color gripping section also like pen just above, but this pair actually with a friction/slip cap, something not documented (i believe) for any Touchdown pen of this shape. I bought the pens on ebay. One has Sheaffer imprint down side of the pen (similar to most TM Touchdown and Snorkel), the other has it circumferentially by the clutch ring. I find it interesting that there are style differences then even between two pens that are "first of their kind" in what passes for my experience.

Both have gold-filled (typically as for "Crest" model) caps, although at first grab they feel a bit more flimsy than what is found on 952-9 Snorkel or classic 1951 TM Touchdown.

Posted Image



Very strange pens. Any info appreciated. These are heretofore unseen models for me.

regards

David




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#16 Hugh

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 06:14 AM

Hi David,

I can add that the I've seen offered for sale variants of the Australian pen made in both Canada and the US ( iirc this ,US model, had a metal cap but was located in Thailand...I'm loath to put to much weight on it given it's source...) .

I lean towards your latest as being Brazilian made, some unique models seem to appear from that source ( and I've been informed touchdowns weren't made in Argentina)...not a very difficult conclusion to draw. Another pointer to South American production is the lack of "country of origin" on the nib and if the labels are in Portuguese that should put it beyond doubt. Rather attractive as well, the matching BPs turned up from another seller ( here) , don't know if they would help date them at all. Thanks for the updatePosted Image

Regards
Hugh
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#17 david i

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 05:17 AM

It seems we have had some better discussion of this topic than have other Boards. I remain impressed how active the Sheaffer Forum is. Never figured we'd have more discussion than the Parker forum. Somewhere around here we have that thead on early Imperials ;)
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#18 matt

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:56 PM

Here's another of those strange Touchdowns w/ a slip cap and Skripsert nib.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120948345670

Posted Image

#19 Hugh

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 08:53 PM

Here's another of those strange Touchdowns w/ a slip cap and Skripsert nib.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120948345670

Posted Image


Hi Matt,

These are "Golden Imperials", this info courtesy of Daniel K.

Regards
Hugh
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#20 Stavanger

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 04:58 PM

I'm a bit confused about the heritage of this pen. I just bought one in ebay.uk,

and this pen is marked Made in Usa, on nib, cap and barrel. Not sure if this is


still an issue, can't seem to find any references to the

Gold Imperial model.

Regards, Ove






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