47 replies to this topic

[brando090]

Ok, i just send it about a dozen pens to get restored, and for some reason he could not fix pistons, so he did just some Sheaffers and some Waterman's. The problem is, is that i give him a Cardinal 52 1/2 V, with a piece missing in the section, so he could heat the section and fix it, but he insisted on replacing the section, but he puts in a black feed and section!? I have the RHR feed, and there is no damage, but why would you make an incomplete pen with a BHR feed, and not the RHR feed that i have? Also i had another BHR 52 1/2 V with a BCHR cap with gold trim at the top along with the ringtop, but he changes it out with a cap that has no gold finial at the top, but just the ringtop. Does this mean he cant do crack repair, or that it was just laziness? I just wanted my pens correct, and it seems he was just exchanging parts for what he had on hand.

Edited by brando090, 03 August 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[JonSzanto]

He?

[vintage penman]

Perhaps the OP might like to consider the difficulties involved in repairing any kind of hard rubber - so far there has not been any reliable, tested method of crack repair. It is alleged that a certain variant of Loctite sticks HR, but for how long ? It is also rear impossible to repair a section due to the stresses involved. The nib and feed exert quite considerable pressure on the walls of the section.

Whilst I am by no means defending the repairer there is a possibility that what was done to the pens would have been the best possible outcome if they were to be returned to useable condition.

[JonSzanto]

Also, communication is paramount, especially if the items are rare or of great personal value. For both the client and the repair person, it seems a good idea to know what is going to be done before it is done (as much as can be foretold). Every repair person I've worked with has been great in this regard, and I haven't been disappointed.

[brando090]

Sorry if i was not clear. What has happened was there was a section with a chip missing, i had the chip in there so it could be heated and fixed, but he didn't want to do that. Ok, i understand thats hard, but than he states he got a new section, but now im understanding its BHR not RHR and the feed is also black not the original RHR feed i have to him. I mean seriously, who puts a black section and feed on a RHR pen??? And than on the BCHR 52 1/2 V he puts the wrong cap on, and didn't fix the crack on the old cap, which he could of done; so wrong cap...

[david i]

Sorry if i was not clear. What has happened was there was a section with a chip missing, i had the chip in there so it could be heated and fixed, but he didn't want to do that. Ok, i understand thats hard, but than he states he got a new section, but now im understanding its BHR not RHR and the feed is also black not the original RHR feed i have to him. I mean seriously, who puts a black section and feed on a RHR pen??? And than on the BCHR 52 1/2 V he puts the wrong cap on, and didn't fix the crack on the old cap, which he could of done; so wrong cap...

Hi Brandon,

All other issues aside, it is not clear it is possible to fix broken RHR. Fresh rubber or fresh cuts can expose surfaces that allow bonding, but old oxidized surfaces often are considered untreatable. Now, unlike a stressed cap-lip or barrel thread, maybe a simple chip at edge of section could be reasonably glued back, but anything under stress won't really hold.

I tend to assume best regarding repair folks, but if one wants to do the logic game, either your guy replaced two broken parts with the closes non-broken parts he could find, as a courtesy, not realizing you wanted original parts even if unfixable, or on the more malicious view, he glommed your more interesting parts in exchange for lesser parts... if we really wanna go there.

Since cracked rubber generally is viewed as unfixable, it seems unlikely (putting aside even that most fixers' ethics preclude this) he grabbed your parts to make better pens for himself.

I'm not sure what pre-communcation could've prevented this as you would have had to anticipate he would offer working parts for bad, and he would have had to anticipate that you would mind this. No evil in any position, but shows that communication is key. How did Rummy say, "we know some of what we don't know, but get hit by not knowing what we don't know"...

d

[grandmia]

Was there no communication ? I would have thought any repair or procedure should be explained to the customer and then only after approval by the customer should they commence with any repairs......

[brando090]

Was there no communication ? I would have thought any repair or procedure should be explained to the customer and then only after approval by the customer should they commence with any repairs......

It's somewhat my fault, because he sent me an email of each pen that had work done, told me what was done, and price. On a few of these pens he told me the obscure parts he gave me, so i should of read more carefully before opening my wallet (ie: black section for Waterman cardinal???).

[JonSzanto]

It's somewhat my fault, because he sent me an email of each pen that had work done, told me what was done, and price. On a few of these pens he told me the obscure parts he gave me, so i should of read more carefully before opening my wallet (ie: black section for Waterman cardinal???).

... or making a public issue of it, calling into dispute this unknown repair person's reputation.

[brando090]

It's somewhat my fault, because he sent me an email of each pen that had work done, told me what was done, and price. On a few of these pens he told me the obscure parts he gave me, so i should of read more carefully before opening my wallet (ie: black section for Waterman cardinal???).

... or making a public issue of it, calling into dispute this unknown repair person's reputation.

Did i name a name? Ok, no problem...

[JonSzanto]

Did i name a name? Ok, no problem...

Unless you want to consider, in the future, how it reflects on you.

[david i]

Again, and making no judgements, I note that a typical solution to a broken RHR section (or feed) in a RHR Waterman is to use an overwhelmingly more prevalent black part. Yah, there is a bit of hit on value (we can discuss how much, if we need to), but that is better than a broken pen. Even if a repairman had a spare RHR section, would it be worth it to you to pay $100 for it?

regards

d

[brando090]

Again, and making no judgements, I note that a typical solution to a broken RHR section (or feed) in a RHR Waterman is to use an overwhelmingly more prevalent black part. Yah, there is a bit of hit on value (we can discuss how much, if we need to), but that is better than a broken pen. Even if a repairman had a spare RHR section, would it be worth it to you to pay $100 for it?

regards

d

Good point David,

I wouldn't be interested in the part for $100, as i paid a nice $25 on ebay for the 52 1/2 V Cardinal a while back with another 52 1/2V for $25 How much would it affect the value being with the black section and feed? Still have the undamaged RHR feed, and damaged RHR section...

Edited by brando090, 11 August 2012 - 05:25 AM.

[Rick Krantz]

very good possibility the rhr feed would not fit into the bhr section?

honestly, I think that unless you outline the repairs you wish to have performed, you are leaving a lot up for interpretation.

I think that the repairs you stated are in line with what a typical pen repair person would do, and the only fault I see is that they should have communicated to you their limitations and their "suggested" route of repair, before proceeding.

We don't have the other side of the story, and perhaps there was a communication of such by the repair person, but at the end of the day, the simple truth is you can't repair hard rubber parts, replacement is the only option, and I have seen a fair number of rhr pens with bhr sections. It is an accepted repair, albeit not 100% correct, it was done much the same way 80 years ago too....

If you want to never be disappointed, do your own repairs, I find that works quite well.

There is a reason more repair people are leaving the business than there are getting into doing repairs.

[brando090]

very good possibility the rhr feed would not fit into the bhr section?

honestly, I think that unless you outline the repairs you wish to have performed, you are leaving a lot up for interpretation.

I think that the repairs you stated are in line with what a typical pen repair person would do, and the only fault I see is that they should have communicated to you their limitations and their "suggested" route of repair, before proceeding.

We don't have the other side of the story, and perhaps there was a communication of such by the repair person, but at the end of the day, the simple truth is you can't repair hard rubber parts, replacement is the only option, and I have seen a fair number of rhr pens with bhr sections. It is an accepted repair, albeit not 100% correct, it was done much the same way 80 years ago too....

If you want to never be disappointed, do your own repairs, I find that works quite well.

There is a reason more repair people are leaving the business than there are getting into doing repairs.

I did try to fit it, and its too big i take it. Id love to start repairs, id just like to buy 500 sacs to get the price per down to a more reasonable level, and than talc, and powder, and polish and im good.

[Rick Krantz]

ANd the special tools, and the regular tools, preparation for the pens that break, repair manuals...

[brando090]

ANd the special tools, and the regular tools, preparation for the pens that break, repair manuals...

True, that was just for lever fillers, nothing too complicated like a Lifetime or Touchdown.

[FarmBoy]

I did try to fit it, and its too big i take it. Id love to start repairs, id just like to buy 500 sacs to get the price per down to a more reasonable level, and than talc, and powder, and polish and im good.

There is no reason to purchase 500 sacs at a time. Just purchase the few you need, the savings comes from doing the work yourself, not the consumables.

As Rick mentioned, the expense is in the tools and tuition.

[June H]

I did try to fit it, and its too big i take it. Id love to start repairs, id just like to buy 500 sacs to get the price per down to a more reasonable level, and than talc, and powder, and polish and im good.

There is no reason to purchase 500 sacs at a time. Just purchase the few you need, the savings comes from doing the work yourself, not the consumables.

As Rick mentioned, the expense is in the tools and tuition.

I always like what someone said about repairs. To paraphrase. There is the high price of learning to be considered. Breakage and the like. Pens that don't come apart at all. Oh, so many things can go wrong and do. Repairs are not as easy as just buying the materials and the tools. Some of the tools are not available and need to be made. I am happy that anyone would repair other peoples pen at all considering the fragility of old pens. Oh, and did I mention the heating of said old pens. Some of which can melt and also burst into flame. Oh I think we should all bow down to repairpeople and be glad they will acutally repair our pens.

[JonSzanto]

You know what I consider the most valued tool of the great repair people? Their experience.