29 replies to this topic

[Procyon]

SNIP

Honestly, I have looked on some of the websites, including yours David, and I have not really seen any pens like this for such a cheap price as some of you have said.

Just sayin' ..........

Hi Proc,

The pen is a Standard not a Major, both nice models of course.

Here is link to the Sold Pens Archive at Vacumania (largest archive of priced sold old pens on earth): Scan for these numbers for Vac Stdandard

http://www.vacumania...ervacumatic.htm

2892 Standard Silver Pearl Excelletn $235
2867 BUrgundy (better color, slightly less than *my* excellent) $285
3206 Emerald Pearl Excellent $260
3216 Silver Pearl Excellent $235
3165 Golden Pearl Excellent $260
2461 Burg Pearl XF condition $285
2358 Golden Pearl. XF condition but monster nib $285

And oodles more so sold (I just scanned backwards the last 1000 or so pens sold)

Should have more Standards up next couple-few months, with warranty and with my grading standards...

regards

d

And therein lies one of the problems.

I don't regard looking at a website that lists a bunch of sold pens as being of much use, when I want to buy a pen. First of all I don't know how long those pens have been sitting up there with a "Sold" sign on them - so it doesn't even help me much in determining the selling price of the pen I am interested in. And many websites remove the price when it is sold - so it isn't even useful for that. Even if it does give me an idea of how much I might have to pay for a pen, it still doesn't help me find the pen I am looking for.

Also, these were sets, not just pens. If you can find me sets in the condition that erfobay sold at a lower price, I will buy them from you all day long. I have purchased several pens from them, and they actually seem to underestimate the condition of their pens. Two days ago, I received a Conklin crescent filler overlay from them. They said it would need a new sac. When I opened it, the sac was absolutely new. I just put some talc on it and closed it up. Perfect pen.

Anyway, I would love to find those websites that have all of those wonderful pens for sale that some of you guys keep talking about. Remember I said Pens for Sale! I really don't care what you sold 3 years ago.

[penmanila]

i. on the other hand, have bookmarked vacumania's "sold vacs" page to guide me in my buying decisions, especially when i'm going for a higher-end vac; when i sell vacs, it's a good guide as well. i keep in mind that david deals in pens in very good to mint condition, often fully restored, and his prices reflect that. when someone asks me how much his pen is potentially worth, i refer him to vacumania, again with the usual caveats about condition.

all this education helps when i visit other sites or trawl ebay, or find pens in the wild.

as for vacs for sale, well, there's also always vacumania's vacs for sale page, among other sites (david nishimura's, ron zorn's, etc.). the "truly cheap" finds i've found on ebay, with all the attendant risks, which again my readings of other sites help reduce.

[Procyon]

Well, it's a guide, all right, but I am not sure how good it is. I constantly find web pages that are 8 or more years old. And frankly, you can't tell the difference between those and new sites. I purchased a fairly rare Waterman 94 Persian set on one well-known website 3 or 4 years ago, and that website still offers my set for sale. I can tell because, the bizarre patterns and unique discoloring usually associated with this pattern are easily discernible from the pictures that are still there. I have often wondered what Max would do if I ordered it again. Any way, my point is that prices change, but websites last forever, unless you purposely change them.

Now, I am not claiming that David would do this, but the guy who did that wrote the most recent book on Waterman's pens. Anyway, I have a pretty good idea of what I am willing to pay for most pens. For me, though, I do admit Vacs are quite "iffy", since I usually can't figure out which model they are. Like I said, the pens on eBay seemed to be Majors to me, based on Binder's site. Yet, I am told they are "standards". Of course, I wasn't told why they are "standards", so that isn't much help. Just another reason for me to dislike Vacs - besides the fact that their stupid filling system replaced the best filling system ever devised - the button filler.

Edited by Procyon, 15 October 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[Will]

but I'm torn. Gary Leher has a restored Nearmint+ golden pearl with really nice barrel clarity, two tone nib, engraved though--for $150. there is also this: Duofold I would have to sell my paragon to fund this. I don't know if I want to do that.

Gizz tends to sell fairly graded pens. I have bought some nice things there over the years.

I do note this pen appears to be a Duofold Juniorette (smallest save for the Vest Pocket, which has added cachet), that color is nice but not superb and (I'm guessing, as didn't read closely) not restored with warranty.

regards

david

Its incredible to look at the amount of pens he lists either nearmint+, mint, or NOS. Even Parker Duofolds....etc. I don't know how he gets them in such great condition. He's in my state. Maybe I should start looking at antique stores here!

[david i]

And therein lies one of the problems.

I don't regard looking at a website that lists a bunch of sold pens as being of much use, when I want to buy a pen. First of all I don't know how long those pens have been sitting up there with a "Sold" sign on them - so it doesn't even help me much in determining the selling price of the pen I am interested in. And many websites remove the price when it is sold - so it isn't even useful for that. Even if it does give me an idea of how much I might have to pay for a pen, it still doesn't help me find the pen I am looking for.

Also, these were sets, not just pens. If you can find me sets in the condition that erfobay sold at a lower price, I will buy them from you all day long. I have purchased several pens from them, and they actually seem to underestimate the condition of their pens. Two days ago, I received a Conklin crescent filler overlay from them. They said it would need a new sac. When I opened it, the sac was absolutely new. I just put some talc on it and closed it up. Perfect pen.

Anyway, I would love to find those websites that have all of those wonderful pens for sale that some of you guys keep talking about. Remember I said Pens for Sale! I really don't care what you sold 3 years ago.

Everyone of course has the right to value anything however he so chooses, including seeing it as being not of much use. Note I cited my price for pens I would sell!

Given the posts we've had noting that the pen market has not shifted much of late, given that I tend to list similar pens at similar prices over the course of years, given that I have told you my price for my kind of "excellent" in this pen, and given my presentation of a history of multiple items sold in that zone over time, with the consistency found with experienced retail, with stable grading and warranty in more stable a setting than ebay in which the same sort of pen can be offered with inconsistent presentation and with five fold variation in prices obtained, I'm curious to know what better source imaginable there is to establish the stable ;retail pricing of a pen That a pen not set was present in my quote was noted. Furthermore, my original comment was, "I sell true excellent (my grading standards, feel free to peek at them) ;Emerald Pearl 1st Gen Vac Standard (pen), fully restored with one year function warranty, from my retail web site... around $260. I sell them for that. Not, "I have sold them for that but would not sell them for that in the future"

You expressed the concern, " Honestly, I have looked on some of the websites, including yours David and I have not really seen any pens like this for such a cheap price as  some of you have said. " The sold pens list emonstrates without doubt that pens at "such a cheap price' (you were not asking for sets in that sentence) indeed  are available for perusal, having in fact sold at this "cheap" price, backed by my assertion that I sell the pens at that price.Too you noted lack of familiarity with the model itself, which is fine. So, you have my stated retail zone for this pen, restored, with warranty, with one of the most strict grading standards offered in the hobby and hard evidence of my willingness to sell such pens in the quoted zone Let me know which color Vac Standard sets you want at $330 ( can do all but Red and maybe even Red given condition questions regarding pen in auction), particularly where don't have to specify details my grading system, don't have to note any transparency in the pen, don't have to note preservation of color, don't have to worry about some brassing, don't have to comment on imprint quality and don't have to offer a one year function warranty... and I should be able to get you several or more during the coming year in a range of colors, including green. In fact, it will be much easier to do that than what I routinely offer other people, a defined grading system addressing all the key points noted, *and* a function warranty

Although... if the market has evolved to the point that folks will buy these all day long at this price, it might be time to bump the price I admit it has been a couple years since I last sold erfobay a pen...

regards

David

[david i]

Well, it's a guide, all right, but I am not sure how good it is. I constantly find web pages that are 8 or more years old. And frankly, you can't tell the difference between those and new sites. I purchased a fairly rare Waterman 94 Persian set on one well-known website 3 or 4 years ago, and that website still offers my set for sale. I can tell because, the bizarre patterns and unique discoloring usually associated with this pattern are easily discernible from the pictures that are still there. I have often wondered what Max would do if I ordered it again. Any way, my point is that prices change, but websites last forever, unless you purposely change them.

Now, I am not claiming that David would do this, but the guy who did that wrote the most recent book on Waterman's pens. Anyway, I have a pretty good idea of what I am willing to pay for most pens. For me, though, I do admit Vacs are quite "iffy", since I usually can't figure out which model they are. Like I said, the pens on eBay seemed to be Majors to me, based on Binder's site. Yet, I am told they are "standards". Of course, I wasn't told why they are "standards", so that isn't much help. Just another reason for me to dislike Vacs - besides the fact that their stupid filling system replaced the best filling system ever devised - the button filler.

My sold-pens archive is updated roughly every two months. If you had question as to whether I still routinely offer on my sales pages pens I have not physically owned for years (a bit of a harsh assessment) it would be easy enough to ask. As to my dear friend Richard, I have not peeked at his pen profiles of late and have doubts he'd call this pen a Major, but I invite you to ask him to whom he turns when he has a question about Vacs.

Furthermore, you never asked why these are "standards" (actually, "Standards"). I can answer most questions about Vacs relatively efficiently, once asked.

Disliking any pen is fine, but the market analysis you invoked in this thread really is an independent issue from model nomenclature or concerns about the persistent listing of already sold pens.

regards

david

[david i]

but I'm torn. Gary Leher has a restored Nearmint+ golden pearl with really nice barrel clarity, two tone nib, engraved though--for $150. there is also this: Duofold I would have to sell my paragon to fund this. I don't know if I want to do that.

Gizz tends to sell fairly graded pens. I have bought some nice things there over the years.

I do note this pen appears to be a Duofold Juniorette (smallest save for the Vest Pocket, which has added cachet), that color is nice but not superb and (I'm guessing, as didn't read closely) not restored with warranty.

regards

david

Its incredible to look at the amount of pens he lists either nearmint+, mint, or NOS. Even Parker Duofolds....etc. I don't know how he gets them in such great condition. He's in my state. Maybe I should start looking at antique stores here!

Have you inquired as to the specifics of the grading system in play?

-d

[Procyon]

Well, it's a guide, all right, but I am not sure how good it is. I constantly find web pages that are 8 or more years old. And frankly, you can't tell the difference between those and new sites. I purchased a fairly rare Waterman 94 Persian set on one well-known website 3 or 4 years ago, and that website still offers my set for sale. I can tell because, the bizarre patterns and unique discoloring usually associated with this pattern are easily discernible from the pictures that are still there. I have often wondered what Max would do if I ordered it again. Any way, my point is that prices change, but websites last forever, unless you purposely change them.

Now, I am not claiming that David would do this, but the guy who did that wrote the most recent book on Waterman's pens. Anyway, I have a pretty good idea of what I am willing to pay for most pens. For me, though, I do admit Vacs are quite "iffy", since I usually can't figure out which model they are. Like I said, the pens on eBay seemed to be Majors to me, based on Binder's site. Yet, I am told they are "standards". Of course, I wasn't told why they are "standards", so that isn't much help. Just another reason for me to dislike Vacs - besides the fact that their stupid filling system replaced the best filling system ever devised - the button filler.

My sold-pens archive is updated roughly every two months. If you had question as to whether I still routinely offer on my sales pages pens I have not physically owned for years (a bit of a harsh assessment) it would be easy enough to ask. As to my dear friend Richard, I have not peeked at his pen profiles of late and have doubts he'd call this pen a Major, but I invite you to ask him to whom he turns when he has a question about Vacs.

Furthermore, you never asked why these are "standards" (actually, "Standards"). I can answer most questions about Vacs relatively efficiently, once asked.

Disliking any pen is fine, but the market analysis you invoked in this thread really is an independent issue from model nomenclature or concerns about the persistent listing of already sold pens.

regards

david

I think I indicated, fairly clearly, that I wasn't talking about you here David - see bold script. If it wasn't clear, I apologize. Apparently, you do keep your website up to date - but some people don't.

I have about a half dozen Vacs, not including Vacumatic Duofolds and 51's. The different models of Vacs have always been confusing to me, since a lot of the pens seem to be roughly the same size (seems like most are 5 1/8 inch). They are also sort of a pain to repair. For these reasons, I have pretty much chosen not to collect these. That's OK, I can't collect everything.

I was being a bit facetious about hating the filling system, but it is more difficult to repair than the button filler. As a user, it is also difficult to change ink colors - which I do often. Anyway, for now at least, I think I will let others collect the Vacumatics. There are plenty of other pens to spend my money on.

[djohannsen]

Have you inquired as to the specifics of the grading system in play?

I just found it quaint that ALL of his listings contain the word "rare" in the title... ;-)

[Procyon]

I just found it quaint that ALL of his listings contain the word "rare" in the title... ;-)

It is amazing how many rare pens are out there!