Jump to content


Photo

Why Soennecken?


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 Will

Will

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 119 posts

Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:03 PM

I've heard a couple times that (quoting Propas himself), "Many folks, including me, argue that Soenneckens were the best made German pens of the 1950s, period."
Why is this? What puts them above Pelikans, Osmias, or Montblancs? What little things do you super-collectors look for that helps you say such statements? Is it in the plating or something? ;)

Any ideas would be very much appreciated!


Will

#2 Rockyrod

Rockyrod

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • LocationOklahoma

Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:43 AM

I can't amswer about the 50's but the half dozen I have from the war time era 40's are my favorite of all the German pens. The look and feel of a black multi ringed 510 is something no other pen has been able to compete with. But then again I like my Kaweco over MB and Pelikan as well so it could be just up to the individual.

Rod R.
USAF, Ret.

#3 Christof Z

Christof Z

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 390 posts
  • LocationConfoederatio Helvetica

Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:02 AM

Well, this is a topic I can say somthing to.
....but it's early in the morning here, need some time....
only one thing for now: Soennecken is a very interesting brand with lots of high quality pens but I never would say one single brand is "best" or superior than orhers.I'll come back to this thread during the day.
Christof




Okay, here I am again...

First, Soennecken is one of the oldest German pen brand. They started early with safetys and lever fillers. These are very rare nowadays. Then, Soennecken introduced the famous "Rheingold" push knob filler. First without, but later with inkview. Here es a picture of a very early Rheingold:
Posted Image

...just ignore the Duodold, it's just for size comparison.

The later "Rheingold" is compareable to WAterman's inkview, just knob than lever activated:

Posted Image



The flagship of the Rheingolds has been the "Präsident". Here a picture of a pre war President:

Posted Image



...and a post war Pres.

Posted Image



After that Pelikan introduced the piston filler in 1929, Soennecken started also with pistons in the late 30's. Here's a 507 from this time:

Posted Image

All these Soennecken piston mechanisms look similar:

Posted Image

After WWII, Soennekcen introduced the famous 111, 222 and 333 to compete with Montblanc. The two special things about these are first the click filling mechanism and second the marvellous celluloids like herringbone patterns in different colors or lizard pattern in different colors.

Posted Image

The piston was still the same, the click mechanism has just been added to the filling knob:


Posted Image

If I had to compare Montblanc, Pelikan and Soennecken pens, I'd say that:

-Pelikan had only few different models but lots of different colors.

-Montblanc had many different models but only few colors.

-But Soennecken had lots of different models and lots of colors! They also had a quite cryptical numbering system and it's hard or nearly impossible to get an overview over all this Soenneckens. This may be interesting for some colletors, for others it's just scary...and I would say it is probably impossible to get a complete Pelikan or Montblanc collection but it is surely impossible to get all the Soenneckens.

Fact is, to come back to your question, these 50's made Soennecken are extremely well made pens in very attractive patterns and colors. But again, I never would say that these are "better" than the ones from another brand.



Christof



PS: To make it even more complicated: Soennecken did produce pens only for the Swiss market in the 1950's... Again more different pens! I wrote about that on my endless thread on FPN: S E E H E R E

Edited by Christof Z, 22 February 2013 - 07:28 AM.


#4 Will

Will

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 119 posts

Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

Whoa! Serious pens there! Thanks much for some insight. I do think that one maybe could call Soennecken better than Pelikan because of the metal pistons...which add more weight and a "classier" feel. Also the later Reinghold filler looks very interesting...is there any good article about that filler (I'm kind confused by the eraser like button at the end).


Thanks again!


Will

#5 Christof Z

Christof Z

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 390 posts
  • LocationConfoederatio Helvetica

Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

I do think that one maybe could call Soennecken better than Pelikan because of the metal pistons...




This is an opinion...which I do not share. I think, (and that's just me) that Pelikans piston design is better because it's made completely from hard rubber (talking about P100 and P100N). Just imagine what happens when the piston seal fails? Correct, ink gets behind the seal, in the mechanics. I've seen lots of pens with badly corroded metal pistons and spindles (also lots of Soennecken). Not nice, and hard to reapair. Think of Montblancs famous telescopic mechanism... great ink capacity yes, but nearly impossible to reapair when corroded. So my opinion is: don't use metal in a pen when it's not necessary! but that's just me...

Posted Image




this picture shows an original Pelikan 100 piston and one of the modern LE "Originals of their time".



Also the later Reinghold filler looks very interesting...is there any good article about that filler (I'm kind confused by the eraser like button at the end).



I don't know if there's an article on the internet. The "eraser like" button is made of casein. The black collar around is a securing mechanism wich can be screwed in. It's like a blind cap. Just fixed connected to the pen.

Edited by Christof Z, 22 February 2013 - 03:46 PM.


#6 Will

Will

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 119 posts

Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

I understand the problems with metal pistons, but in terms of the feel of the pen they may be more desirable. Of course the lizzard Soennecken celluloid is also very unique...but aren't mont-blanc celluloids used on the 142-146 pens distinctive as well? The weird thing is that I've heard people say Soenncekens are the best built pens of their time... that really was what I was getting at. But you say the build quality is equal in every way between Pelikan, MB, and Soennecken?

#7 brando090

brando090

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 719 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:21 AM

Christof,

I'm not only happy that you joined us over here on FPB, but have always loved your eastern knowledge on German brands. Just to throw out there, I have two early BCHR Soennecken safeties.

http://fountainpenbo...ty-soenneckens/

#8 Christof Z

Christof Z

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 390 posts
  • LocationConfoederatio Helvetica

Posted 02 April 2013 - 06:59 AM

1364883712[/url]' post='23268']
Christof,

I'm not only happy that you joined us over here on FPB, but have always loved your eastern knowledge on German brands. Just to throw out there, I have two early BCHR Soennecken safeties.

http://fountainpenbo...ty-soenneckens/


Brandon
I am not sure but have the feeling that we already have talked about this pens in the past. I didn't had a clue then and still don't... Sorry.
Christof

#9 brando090

brando090

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 719 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:05 AM

1364883712[/url]' post='23268']
Christof,

I'm not only happy that you joined us over here on FPB, but have always loved your eastern knowledge on German brands. Just to throw out there, I have two early BCHR Soennecken safeties.

http://fountainpenbo...ty-soenneckens/


Brandon
I am not sure but have the feeling that we already have talked about this pens in the past. I didn't had a clue then and still don't... Sorry.
Christof


We have, I was just posting if anyone was curious on what they looked like.

#10 piscov

piscov

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 449 posts
  • LocationLisbon, Portugal

Posted 05 April 2013 - 04:36 PM

PS: To make it even more complicated: Soennecken did produce pens only for the Swiss market in the 1950's... Again more different pens! I wrote about that on my endless thread on FPN: S E E H E R E


And how about the Swedish connection, Soennecken produced "The Tower" sub brand for the Swedish market, they are also great looking pens, great writers and with the same filling mechanism as some Soennecken.

When I find the time I will take some pictures of my small The Tower collection to put here also. They are one of my favourite pens.



Best regards
Vasco

simbolo-e-nomesmall2_zps47c0db08.jpg

Check out "Pena Lusa by Piscov". Pens added on a regular basis!

Link for Vintage Montblanc pens here

Link for Vintage Pelikan pens here


#11 Lennart Wennberg

Lennart Wennberg

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • LocationTullinge, Stockholm, Sweden

Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:56 PM


PS: To make it even more complicated: Soennecken did produce pens only for the Swiss market in the 1950's... Again more different pens! I wrote about that on my endless thread on FPN: S E E H E R E


And how about the Swedish connection, Soennecken produced "The Tower" sub brand for the Swedish market, they are also great looking pens, great writers and with the same filling mechanism as some Soennecken.

When I find the time I will take some pictures of my small The Tower collection to put here also. They are one of my favourite pens.





Talking about Tower...
When I grow up I would love to have a penshop like this.

Lennart

Attached File  Pennaffären.jpg   48.43KB   32 downloads




#12 Marsilius

Marsilius

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 127 posts

Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:36 PM

Great thread, and nice looking pens, Christof!

Edited by Marsilius, 05 May 2013 - 06:34 AM.


#13 Rick Propas

Rick Propas

    journeyman

  • ADVISORS
  • 226 posts
  • LocationSF Bay Area

Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:06 AM

I think Christof, who clearly knows these pens more than me, has neatly summed up why Soennecken pens are so admirable. For me it is both the variety and innovation as well as the solid quality, I think of it as German over-engineering at its best..
Posted Image
Visit The PENguin
rickpropas@comcast.net

#14 Rick Propas

Rick Propas

    journeyman

  • ADVISORS
  • 226 posts
  • LocationSF Bay Area

Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:22 PM

For me, this set, recently arrived, may be the best answer to the title of this thread.

Posted Image

Apologies for the background, I'm in the middle of final exams and browsing the pen threads and grading with this pen are all that's keeping me sane :blink:
Posted Image
Visit The PENguin
rickpropas@comcast.net

#15 Josephine

Josephine

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 119 posts
  • LocationWaco, Texas

Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:13 AM

OOOOO Rick I have that pen in the green pattern, have wanted it in the tortoise. Very nice!

#16 Will

Will

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 119 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:56 AM

For me, this set, recently arrived, may be the best answer to the title of this thread.

Posted Image

Apologies for the background, I'm in the middle of final exams and browsing the pen threads and grading with this pen are all that's keeping me sane :blink:


Oh....beauties!

#17 soot

soot

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts

Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

Soennecken made some great high quality pens with their ingenious filling systems, and that is one of the reasons why they are so highly sought after by collectors and users alike.

And I like to +1 to what Christof said:

...these 50's made Soennecken are extremely well made pens in very attractive patterns and colors.


Posted Image

#18 markiv

markiv

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:25 AM

Soenneckens are one the best if not the best pens of their era.
While I am here I want to share a few of mine too.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Posted Image

#19 Christof Z

Christof Z

    journeyman

  • Members
  • 390 posts
  • LocationConfoederatio Helvetica

Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:33 AM

Vik
Your Rheingolds are marvellous, especially the early one in coral! Very, very cool. But what's the second coral pen? Never seen ...
Christof

Edited by Christof Z, 18 May 2013 - 10:34 AM.


#20 tenney

tenney

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:35 AM

For me, this set, recently arrived, may be the best answer to the title of this thread.

Wow, what a gorgeous nib! I bet it writes well too.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users