Brando
Buy a book, buy several books Paul Eranos book, Fishlers and Schnieders book, Glen Bowens book, Frank Dubiels book, The 51 book, the Waterman book, Cliff Lawrences book the Swan book There are dozens more. They are filled with information read them, study them learn. Got to a pen show, go to several pen shows and do please say please
Jerry

Also Jerry,

As far as pen shows, when i get a car (~2-3 months, BMW) id really like to go to the Chicago, Ohio, Detroit, and DC shows. Hopefully you guys will welcome me to dinner, please, and wont give me too much of a hard time.

Ive got a rare Waterman 'World's Smallest Fountain Pen' which id be interested in trading. Please email me at XYZ, as i dont come here very often. Best Regards,Brandon

my favorite quote ever.......

Just curious if the rare Waterman "World's Smallest Fountain Pen" was offered to you before or after a discussion a few weeks ago about a similar pen? That pen had everything except a nib, feed, section, and intact cap.

This was months ago, and the pen has since been told.

Awww... I think yer just teasin'.

I'm somewhat less worried about manners

I'm more concerned about the lack of context and insight in requesting *an* image of *all* of... well... anything.

Too, I'm not wholly comfortable to the uses to which such images might be put.

I'd start the game with a suggestion that Brandon outline what he considers the variations of the #12. A topic worthy of exploration.

Too, I await the price of the Parker Duofold Demonstrator whose image Brandon sent me.

regards

david

That early Parker Duofold bakelite demonstrator, which i was unable to trade for before he swapped it under my feet.

sounds fishy....

I mean we allow this guy access to this board, and he comes up with this?

I was working on a trade with this particular board member, but he was hesitant to sell/trade it as either of us had seen another. David had seen them, but informed me that they were extremely fragile and he'd be interested in it. When i made an offer, he traded it without letting me know...

Brando
Buy a book, buy several books Paul Eranos book, Fishlers and Schnieders book, Glen Bowens book, Frank Dubiels book, The 51 book, the Waterman book, Cliff Lawrences book the Swan book There are dozens more. They are filled with information read them, study them learn. Got to a pen show, go to several pen shows and do please say please
Jerry

Also Jerry,

As far as pen shows, when i get a car (~2-3 months, BMW) id really like to go to the Chicago, Ohio, Detroit, and DC shows. Hopefully you guys will welcome me to dinner, please, and wont give me too much of a hard time.

Hmmh! Money to buy a BMW, (even if it might be used,) and then travel, and not enough to buy any books on a subject you are so involved in? Interesting!

Jerry, really...

It's a diesel which get's 30-40 mpg. This particular model is cheaper than alternatives, and you do want me to come visit you at a pen show, dont you?...

Also Jerry,

As far as pen shows, when i get a car (~2-3 months, BMW) id really like to go to the Chicago, Ohio, Detroit, and DC shows. Hopefully you guys will welcome me to dinner, please, and wont give me too much of a hard time.

There probably has been no one to pop up on the boards in years to have so earned a hard time. When you start to realize why, you will have at least a hope of moving in new direction. It will be up to you if you want to grow


You have a remarkable lack of perspective regarding our hobby.

You think you can offer Sheaffer Cadets against 1930 Parker Combos, and you plan to attend a pen show in your BMW, but you cannot afford any pen books to start the process of learning about your chosen hobby. You offer pens for sale you don't own. You've been tossed from ebay already and now say you "don't" sell pens on ebay anymore. Why not? Can't? Your account seems active. Of course this is your second ebay account and your first sale on it gave you a negative feedback because you refused to ship the pen you'd sold. You fish for information to hunt imaginary trades and are more than a bit grandiose in assessing items you own. You post "perspectives" that are loose paraphrase (often with errors) from other more knowledgeable writers, yet you don't mention you didn't come up with the notions in ply. You have You really have created your own "hard time".

Selling some of your pens to buy a couple good books would seem to be a good thing for you long term.

Jerry's advice to you is startlingly similar to what others offered you when you first popped up. You show no signs of having absorbed any of that advice during the last few months. Perhaps you'll hear it better, when it is from Jerry.. You have alienated many (perhaps most) of the well known internet pen dealers and advice sharers. A remarkable feat.

Go sell a few pens. Take the appropriate losses on your "deals". Buy Erano's $25 book and the $80 Fischler "Blue Book". Perhaps promise yourself not to buy any pens the next few months. Check out pen profiles at Nishimura's and Binder's websites. Ask questions without second agenda and go at it long enough that people actually believe (correctly or not) that you want to learn, not just manipulate. You might be surprised...

regards

d

Sorry i didn't know Parker combo's are scarce, and compared to most of the 3rd tier combo's, Parker combo's fetch a premium. I have owned several pen books, but they were pretty much on the history of the brand, not exactly anything of depth an detail. Obviously, as you should know David Issacson, im only a teenager, so that my hint regarding ebay. Ebay doesn't like young entrepreneurs, i think they like 200 year old entrepreneurs, who knows anymore!

Also i do a lot of trades, working on 3 as we speak, one of which will be ending this week, and another ill be visiting to do the trade. I also appologise for asking question in which i wasn't sure of a brand and it's value, id rather ask an expert, than try to sell it on ebay for $15000.

David
My point about the books was that he really must start somewhere. He has little or no knowledge. I agree with you 100% that books alone are not enough, one must get into the fray (as it were) to gain experience. Brando also persists in calling pens 3rd tier. I don't beleive he can define that expression. I just grabbed an All American combo in a stunning Endura green. Brando is that a 3rd tier pen? I traded a really nice Shaeffers green combo for it even up. Did I make a bad deal? If so, then so what? I can think of 10 collectors that will flip over that pen. What about WASPs? Are they 3rd tier? Wearevers? Esterbrooks.
I sent you a picture of several sterling pens one of which was a half overlay it was a Sterling brand pen is that 3rd tier? You once commented to me about some sterling silver overlay as a 3rd tier pen, This is now my 2rd month in this hobby and I can't say that I have ever heard of a 3rd tier pen w/sterling silver overlay.
What is a 3rd tier pen? Please define it for me so I may be enlightend by your wisdom.
Jerry

As you say, i have little or no knowledge. I guess your always right. Also id like to see the picture(s) of the silver pens, but i haven't received anything.

I thank both Pearce and Rick,

Ill take meeting you guys as it is, and hopefully you guys can slap some pen sense into me, not literally but metaphorically. Ill take a rest, and read on.

I think i need to meet you guys at a pen show, and you guys can help me along and help me understand something which i may be missing. I know this is different than your message, but ill step back for a while and read and learn.

Awww... I think yer just teasin'.

I'm somewhat less worried about manners

I'm more concerned about the lack of context and insight in requesting *an* image of *all* of... well... anything.

Too, I'm not wholly comfortable to the uses to which such images might be put.

I'd start the game with a suggestion that Brandon outline what he considers the variations of the #12. A topic worthy of exploration.

Too, I await the price of the Parker Duofold Demonstrator whose image Brandon sent me.

regards

david

That early Parker Duofold bakelite demonstrator, which i was unable to trade for before he swapped it under my feet.

Wow, am i dumb or what. Talk about the pen community being small

Wow, thanks for the help guys.

no

Oh

I meant that as no information was given to help me..

You did not request information.

And, I venture that indeed some information was given to help you...

regards

d

I recall asking for a picture of the variants...

Wow, i take it this thread will be heading to the trash with no help...

yes

May i see it.

Wow, thanks for the help guys.

The question is: with so many teaching moments having been presented to you, will you ever learn?

I have, but there is still much to learn. As with ever teachable moment, there is a time to learn.

as it is presented. It is not necessarily my obligation to offer all of my knowledge up, as it is requested.

If I choose to share, that is a benefit, If I choose not to share, well, I guess that is how the dice roll.

It is rare that I do not share, but here is one occasion, where I am just simply passing.

Besides, you failed to use the magic word, so shame on you.

Rick

Hmmm... Rick's recent travails at the post office have left him in a rather Isaacson-like mood it seems

But, again, there is subtext in play, and new readers should know that Rick is one of the Great Sharers when it comes to pen information.

Too, counting color, chasing, imprint, metal, pattern-to-metal, it is fairly likely that Brandon doesn't know that for which he asks. Too, images are a somewhat precious thing, not always meant for casual use or misuse.

Heck, I'm still waiting for Brandon's price on the Parker Duofold Demonstrator he showed me sometime back...

Perhaps, this thread would grow in a constructive pattern if Brandon offered up what he considers "all the variations (no apostrophe) of the Waterman #12" to be...

-d

don't forget

he didn't use the magic word

Rick

Please Rick could you help out a youngster, please

I see a Edward Todd recently went for $172, and can easily go for more fixed up. I do agree with Roger about the wrongdoing on many who melt gold nibs (and now pens!) for just the sheer sense of, "ohh look gold is almost $2,000." It's even sad to even think that money is worth more than history. Anyway's, i think this pen can easily be sold for more than scrap value to someone who would appreciate this pen, and would like to save it from being scrapped.

Greg,

Great pen! Pen P633 gives a bit of info on this pen, and i see some pens going in the $200-300 range.

http://www.pensandwa...otherpens2.html

You need to learn about pens before you can teach others about them.

In another thread I asked what could be learned from a set of pens showing steps in the manufacturing process. Now that you have had a chance to think about them (you may want additional photos showing key details-I certainly do) teach me. Let's start with the raw material and what must have been the first step in the process.

Well, the first step is to acquire whatever material the pen turner would like to use. In this case, a moss agate plastic. After spinning it to specs, they than put the holed in it where the sac, and lever will go. They than cut into a carrel and cap, and start degrading (correct word?) the tops and end of barrel to have stepped pattern. I can speculate that next (pictures aren't close enough to show), the cap band cutout and lever filler cutout are placed, and once in place everything is attached.

George,

Nice lot of vacs, did you buy them? As I've said before, I'm no longer on what, and I don't buy on there. Good deal it looks to be. And yes, I have some of the pensut away for a trade.

English, Brandon. Try writing in English...

regards

d

Thanks David,

I didn't even realize the word correction technology did this. It sure did change things, but I got it back to normal.

Hopefully Brandon, none of us here (including self) are helping to create a better con man.

Time will tell.

This hurts that you'd say this.

My first ever Vacumatic is on its way. Woops, did I forget to mention I bought 3? Oh yea, and three pencils too. Sorry, but no gold bands. But anyway, from what I've gathered the Maximas are the ones with the blue diamond clip models with DJ's. Is this true? What would the same pen be called without the extra jewel?

Brandon,

Vacumatic identification has a LOT of factors involved. A Vacumatic is not necessarily a Maxima if it has two jewels. In fact, all Vacumatics had two jewels through 1941. What makes a pen a Maxima is the size of the pen. In most cases, a Maxima with two jewels will have a 5mm wide band with a chevron pattern. It will also be about 139 mm in length.

It is possible to have a double jewel pen with a blue diamond clip that is a Maxima, a Slender Maxima, a Major, or a Debutante.
It is also possible to have a double jewel pen with a NON blue diamond clip that is a Maxima.
It is also possible to have a SINGLE jewel pen with a blue diamond clip that is a Maxima.

You should read David's "Slender Maxima Debate" essay here which identifies characteristics of several different models.

Thank you very much,

I knew there would good articles from David Issacson somewhere floating around.

Also just to put out there, I'm no longer on eBay. I'm just going to sell at flee markets until I'm 18.

Looking at the title of this thread:

First Vacumatic
No Knowledge, Teach Me

Oy the chutzpah.

How about asking people respectfully to teach you.

As it was explained to you previously, no one is under any obligation to teach you anything. You are a guest like everyone else. It is a privilege to be here and to be a part of such a wonderful group of people. Respect the privilege and from there it will help you mature.

There was a saying about free advice, it is worth the price you pay for it. That can be true in many respects. It can also be the most valuable thing a person can receive. Even pro-bono advise, unsolicited can have incredible value. Just a thought for you to ponder.

I agree, and I think I may have came off a little too eager,i need to scale it back.

Here is your chance again.

You made a statement about me and I am giving you the chance to rethink determining if you want to retract it, then apologize for it, keep it and do nothing, expand upon it based upon further conversations we have had,

So what are going to do?

And PS,

Your link to me about Aries is not a good thing to do.

I feel dumb asking... but why is it a bad thing....

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.