61 replies to this topic

[david i]

I hope you're ok, I never intended to hurt you


Looks like I am a BTQ abuser - I never knew the proper usage until now.


Regards,
George

I'm resilient

"Begging the question" perhaps is one of those old usages that... uhhh... begs for change. Still, figure it hurts not to bring it up time to time

d

[Procyon]

At the end of the day, perhaps using the phrase " beg the question", is a slippery slope that leads the non-pedantic linguist into an area that best should be avoided because of the irritating nature of the word choice.

[JonSzanto]

I beg to differ.

[JonSzanto]

On a tangentially related subject (since we are experiencing minor drift)...

Note to self: Never, ever, put off setting a snipe. No amount of convincing yourself "yeah, I'll get to that soon enough" will compensate for the urge to cave in one's forehead with a nearly-empty Prosecco bottle when you realize you didn't just miss it, but you missed it, wanted it, and probably could have gotten it for a song. Or at least an operetta.

Oh well. The dinner was delicious, as was the Prosecco. Now I just have to stop beating myself up, and have firmer resolve in the future.

Edited by JonSzanto, 14 May 2012 - 04:49 AM.

[sloegin]

I once scored a Parker 62 for $45, it sold a week or two later for $1100. I'm still pissed. I'm probably willing to eat the price of admission to see how far things can be pushed, I think, for the greater good.

[ceejaybee]

I once scored a Parker 62 for $45, it sold a week or two later for $1100. I'm still pissed. I'm probably willing to eat the price of admission to see how far things can be pushed, I think, for the greater good.

The seller probably had a better offer after the listing closed, which was, more than likely, still much lower than the pens value. I would be more tempted to stay on good terms with them and possibly negotiate another deal. As a gesture of goodwill they may give you 1st refusal on it and you may still get a bargain?

[david i]

I once scored a Parker 62 for $45, it sold a week or two later for $1100. I'm still pissed. I'm probably willing to eat the price of admission to see how far things can be pushed, I think, for the greater good.

I again suggest caution. What ebay deems the greater good might not be what you expect

Do let us know how it turns out.


-d

[sloegin]

I once scored a Parker 62 for $45, it sold a week or two later for $1100. I'm still pissed. I'm probably willing to eat the price of admission to see how far things can be pushed, I think, for the greater good.

The seller probably had a better offer after the listing closed, which was, more than likely, still much lower than the pens value. I would be more tempted to stay on good terms with them and possibly negotiate another deal. As a gesture of goodwill they may give you 1st refusal on it and you may still get a bargain?

When they refuse to talk to you it is rather difficult.

[david i]

I once scored a Parker 62 for $45, it sold a week or two later for $1100. I'm still pissed. I'm probably willing to eat the price of admission to see how far things can be pushed, I think, for the greater good.

The seller probably had a better offer after the listing closed, which was, more than likely, still much lower than the pens value. I would be more tempted to stay on good terms with them and possibly negotiate another deal. As a gesture of goodwill they may give you 1st refusal on it and you may still get a bargain?

When they refuse to talk to you it is rather difficult.

Verily.

Still, put yourself in his shoes. If you were he and now just had a $600 offer, would you talk to you? He's simply (presumably) optimizing his strategy. It's what most people do.

Certainly this case is a fascinating exploration of the "ebay experience"

d

[sloegin]

Having a $600 offer is fine. Total dismissal of my claim is rude, be reasonable and polite, shouldn't be too much. The pen community isn't so large that such an uncommon pen will go unnoticed.

The way it stands now. The seller is going to have to provide proof of delivery.

[FarmBoy]

I have had sellers back out after agreeing on a deal more than once and not just on eBay.

My most recent eBay experience similar to this - 150 item for 5.95 - resulted in a refund for me and the item with original pictures being sold about 6 weeks later. I was simply told the item must have been lost in the mail. I contacted ebay and they were polite and said the seller indicated that the item was found and relisted and was not in violation of any policy.

As to trolling sold items, I do it in areas I'm interested in as a means of price research.

I have also happened upon a BIN sale that was intended for someone else. You can only imagine the pain and agony that caused--I got the 'excellent deal' generated by someone else via a back channel offer. I actually got the pen along with a note saying the other 'buyer' was rude and truly PO.

This does make for interesting reading.

[plmadding]

Hi Gang,

I find all of this quite interesting. In regards to auction fiascos and similar situations:


If a seller lists a pen for sale, with a posted price, and that price is accepted by clicking the "Buy It Now" button, than a contract has been formed. With all of the details being listed and one party making the offer and the second party accepting, there has obviously been consensus ad idem or a meeting of the minds as it is commonly called. Also, if as a seller, one impatiently accepts a BIN offer, they reap the consequences. A person with integrity stands by their word. However frustrated they may be because of accepting a BIN offer which they later find out is much lower than the typical auction value, is just a natural consequence. The entire reason things are sold by auction is to get the highest possible price the people "attending" are willing to pay. I really find it bizarre how willing sellers are to make back channel deals.


Seeing a contract made and than broken because more money was offered after the contract was closed is really dishonorable. (If how I understand the circumstances is correct) David correct me if I am wrong, but I think the saying, "To have your cake and eat it too," may apply here.



Preston

[sloegin]

I'd be PO too if someone took my back channel offer! That said, I'd take steps to prevent it from happening.

It is dishonorable! I cannot do anything about it, other than imprecations.

I am defeated. I am not getting the pen.

[david i]

I'd be PO too if someone took my back channel offer! That said, I'd take steps to prevent it from happening.

It is dishonorable! I cannot do anything about it, other than imprecations.

I am defeated. I am not getting the pen.

I have had to tread cautiously in this thread, as I can respect several perspectives that exist in the back-channel dynamic. Too, in game theory and in ethics analysis it is easy to play either side of the issue, just to explore where it goes. I do that and usually end up with everyone on all sides mad at me

I'm sorry your deal didn't work out. I've been there. Really. But, the whole back-channel game has enough ambiguities to it to be asking for this sort of development from time to time. When playing a bit fast and loose with ebay policy, some of these deals will blow up.

Do share more pens, but maybe wait next time until they are secure in your possession.

regards

david

[talkinghead]

Just saw this thread here....it was discussed in another Forum also....and as expected, that thread was shut down after it became quite heated....

In that thread, a member, (who may or may not be a member here, I searched the name but no hits on this board), felt it was his "duty" to protect the seller, after he saw the "ended auction" details. It is unknown if that person was just perusing Ebay for ended auctions on Parker 51's or was "tipped" off somehow. The OP here, did not "show his hand" on the other board. Looking at time stamps on this board, the OP posted his question late in the day AFTER the BIN had ended, the "contract" complete with his payment. Presumably the other member, just happened to see, the ended auction...(again was it just his Ebay searching or did he happen to see the thread and link posted here?) and emailed the seller, telling him the rarity of the pen and it's typical value, again much more than the selling price. That member then posted a comment, about how "Sick he was" that the pen went for much less than it should...

I got involved because the member in question, while doing a "quoted reply" , inserted his text, into an old post from me (the actual thread was a year old previously, discussing Rare Parker 51's!). And when posted to the discussion, it appeared his comment about being "Sick....yada yada" appeared to have come from me..... that's when it all hit the fan!

It is a sticky wicket, but I don't believe the OP/buyer here "showed his hand" to the masses on either board prior to completion of the deal...I believe he just got rear ended.

Certainly an interesting discussion, and I feel for the OP/buyer....

Rick

[Admin]

Just saw this thread here....it was discussed in another Forum also....and as expected, that thread was shut down after it became quite heated....

In that thread, a member, (who may or may not be a member here, I searched the name but no hits on this board), felt it was his "duty" to protect the seller, after he saw the "ended auction" details. It is unknown if that person was just perusing Ebay for ended auctions on Parker 51's or was "tipped" off somehow. The OP here, did not "show his hand" on the other board. Looking at time stamps on this board, the OP posted his question late in the day AFTER the BIN had ended, the "contract" complete with his payment. Presumably the other member, just happened to see, the ended auction...(again was it just his Ebay searching or did he happen to see the thread and link posted here?) and emailed the seller, telling him the rarity of the pen and it's typical value, again much more than the selling price. That member then posted a comment, about how "Sick he was" that the pen went for much less than it should...

I got involved because the member in question, while doing a "quoted reply" , inserted his text, into an old post from me (the actual thread was a year old previously, discussing Rare Parker 51's!). And when posted to the discussion, it appeared his comment about being "Sick....yada yada" appeared to have come from me..... that's when it all hit the fan!

It is a sticky wicket, but I don't believe the OP/buyer here "showed his hand" to the masses on either board prior to completion of the deal...I believe he just got rear ended.

Certainly an interesting discussion, and I feel for the OP/buyer....

Rick

Hi Rick,

You can take it from fairly sound authority, that the thread won't be shut down here no matter how heated it gets.

Do invite your friends to play.

Regards

Ye Olde Admin

[John Danza]

Just saw this thread here....it was discussed in another Forum also....and as expected, that thread was shut down after it became quite heated....

Thanks for posting this Rick. I occasionally need a reminder of why I don't spend any time on Fountain Pen Network anymore.

I hope the two posters who opined that they somehow have a God-given right to get in the middle of other people's transactions are not posters here. Not to speak for David, but those two can stay over on FPN.

[FarmBoy]

Just saw this thread here....it was discussed in another Forum also....and as expected, that thread was shut down after it became quite heated....

Thanks for posting this Rick. I occasionally need a reminder of why I don't spend any time on Fountain Pen Network anymore.

I hope the two posters who opined that they somehow have a God-given right to get in the middle of other people's transactions are not posters here. Not to speak for David, but those two can stay over on FPN.

While I can not confirm or deny, I do suspect that both FPN posters read here and at least one posts here.

Not sure what can be done about the back channel deals and offers. It happens outside of ebay as well.

I posted this a while back in another thread about this general topic.

For the record, I got my new account this week....

I always enjoy this debate and it seems to come up regularly on collector boards. I rarely participate in the debate.

Instead of talking about it I propose everyone have some fun with my four step plan.

1: Sign up for a new ebay account.
2: List a valuable pen (>500 USD) with a 99 cent starting bid -- toss in a few shaky pictures and for fun use the 'I know nothing about pens' or 'I'm cleaning out grandma's house' ploy.
3: Wait for the low ball offers.
4: Cancel the listing leaving everyone wondering.

You will learn a lot.


Todd

[JonSzanto]

Todd - just out of curiosity, am I correct in figuring that having more than one account is not disallowed by the eBay TOS? I've never sold anything on the bay, but was considering it down the road. If I did, somehow I'd like it better from a different account.

[Baz666]

Todd - just out of curiosity, am I correct in figuring that having more than one account is not disallowed by the eBay TOS? I've never sold anything on the bay, but was considering it down the road. If I did, somehow I'd like it better from a different account.

Hi,
eBay does allow multiple accounts but you have to have a unique email address assigned to each account (in the U.K. anyhoo).

Hope this helps.

Paul.