61 replies to this topic

[Hugh]

Hi all,

A bit late to the discussion but always ready to give an opinion (of sorts anyway!!). Would appear to be three "players", an uneducated seller, a buyer (whether he knows what he's buying isn't relevant in the "big picture") and a knowledgeable "third party". In all fairness how much blame can be laid at the feet of the seller, someone offers you x amount more after the auction a lot will simply take it (...ebay is about money, like it or not) despite the moral obligation to honour the deal which if you so desire can be enforced ( in Australia anyway) through the legal system at great expense. Yes, it's been tested but a rather large ticket item, a plane ( the details escape me but I'm thinking in the 100's of thousands) so a pen isn't worth the expense. The reality is the first buyer has no way to enforce the "deal", only the sellers honesty and integrity. Now the "third party" is the real rat, maybe as opinioned picked up the lead from one of the boards or could simply not show his/her (gees..you have to be "politically" correct *cough*) hand till an actual sale price was known, again someone with the knowledge and experience would be able to pick up these type of bargains without showing their hand far better than in a bidding "war". I lean to the latter, given time it'll probably resurface with a higher price tag from either the seller ( now more knowledgeable) or a known ebay dealer. In a perfect world it wouldn't happen...

Regards
Hugh

[FarmBoy]

Todd - just out of curiosity, am I correct in figuring that having more than one account is not disallowed by the eBay TOS? I've never sold anything on the bay, but was considering it down the road. If I did, somehow I'd like it better from a different account.

I have several accounts for separate business ventures. Each one has a separate email and bank account. eBay seems fine with it as far as I can tell.

T

[George]

Relisted.... hmmm......

http://cgi.ebay.com/...n#ht_500wt_1288

George

[John Danza]

Relisted.... hmmm......

http://cgi.ebay.com/...n#ht_500wt_1288

George

So can the OP point this out to Ebay, that the seller welched on his original offer and relisted at a higher price? If this isn't against one of their rules, then I guess they really have no rules.

[sloegin]

Same seller.

[John Danza]

Same seller.

Is there an ebay rule that this guy may have violated by welching on his original deal and then relisting it? It might be worth one more shot at it to come up with a compromise number between your original $75 and his new $500 reserve.

[JonSzanto]

At best this seems unethical, and at worst may have (or should have) violated some part of the TOS. Beyond that, it just sucks.

[Hirsch]

Ebay User Agreement: http://pages.ebay.co...-agreement.html

Using eBay
While using eBay sites, services and tools, you will not:
...

fail to deliver items purchased from you, unless the buyer fails to meet the posted terms, or you cannot authenticate the buyer's identity;

...

There's the violation. Wonder what eBay would do if notified...

Edited by Hirsch, 23 May 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[JonSzanto]

Using eBay
While using eBay sites, services and tools, you will not:
...
fail to deliver items purchased from you, unless the buyer fails to meet the posted terms, or you cannot authenticate the buyer's identity;

Based on that, I'd sure file a claim. And raise bloody hell, as well.

[sloegin]

You can only file a claim through ebay if paypal says you have paid. So if a seller refunds your money, no claim. You can pay again to file a claim, but then you are out the money while ebay decides how to rule, and you are only going to get back the original purchase price. In this instance the item wasn't 'properly' described so there was a valid reason for non-delivery of goods. Also ebay no longer has email support, or it is so buried that I cannot find it, they want you to call them.

If the winner of pen is up for some mischief I've an idea.

[JonSzanto]

You can only file a claim through ebay if paypal says you have paid. So if a seller refunds your money, no claim. You can pay again to file a claim, but then you are out the money while ebay decides how to rule, and you are only going to get back the original purchase price. In this instance the item wasn't 'properly' described so there was a valid reason for non-delivery of goods. Also ebay no longer has email support, or it is so buried that I cannot find it, they want you to call them.

If the winner of pen is up for some mischief I've an idea.

I have to say: from the top, you've made most of your posts about the situation, at best, somewhat opaque. I went back to the beginning, and you said the seller cancelled the sale and refunded your money. Was this at *your request*? If so, then you not only don't seem to have a leg to stand on, but nothing to bitch about either. If not, then it still seems you have every right to go after the seller, since you didn't cancel the sale OR ask for the refund. I have no idea what the relevance is of you bringing up that "the item wasn't 'properly' described", and what bearing it has on the situation.

You either play by posted rules (TOS) and use them to your advantage if things go South, or you walk away. I've been pretty clear about my thoughts toward an unscrupulous seller like this. Having said that, any idea of "mischief" completely blows your white hat out of the water (to mix metaphors).

[sloegin]

The seller requested the sale be cancelled. I refused. This is independent on their refunding my money. A refund is processed through paypal outside of the ebay TOS. Request any of this, I lost $600 dollars because this went south, less opaque, no I most certainly didn't request it. By all means, tell me, how can I force the seller to be honorable?

The relevance of bringing up the proper description. The seller listed the pen thinking it was cocoa. I knew better and bought it. The seller learns that it is yellowstone meaning the cocoa description was inaccurate. Meaning they were trying to be a good seller by giving an accurate description, albeit dishonorably and greedy.

As for the mischief it would be still be playing by TOS and I'd get nothing from it but a good laugh.

I've ceased bitching about it see my previous post admitting defeat. I continue to field queries.

[JonSzanto]

Thanks, that *does* clarify the situation quite a bit. I assumed that a refund couldn't be initiated by the recipient unless requested by the sender, as it doesn't really make any sense.

Is it really not possible to show eBay that you *had* paid for the item, with information showing the payment times or something? I realize you are past all this, but it is such an obvious and egregious manipulation of the TOS and ethical sales behavior that it is a bit mind-boggling to see it occur. I don't know if there is anything else you could have done, but I wish you could out this person 'officially', as opposed to punking them.

As I mentioned before, and David alluded to as well: some of your posts are a little bit hard to figure out, a little 'confidential'. Bear that in mind if we don't happen to read the situation exactly as you thought you portrayed it.

[sloegin]

I haven't sold anything on ebay for close to a decade. That said, I don't think ebay cares. In theory, they (ebay), got a cut from when the pen sold to me, and they will get a cut from when the pen sells again.

This crap happens. Not often so publicly.

[JonSzanto]

I hate to see you roll over so easily, but that's your decision. You think that a place like eBay doesn't care; you may be right, or not. OTOH, sometimes it is just a matter of finding the right contact person to make your case.

All in all, what a drag. I wish you had gotten the pen.

[sloegin]

ebay cannot force the seller to send me the pen.

Roll over easily, no. This was/is all a very bitter pill.

[JonSzanto]

Poor choice of words on my part - I'm certain, if you wanted that pen as it appears, it would be galling. What I meant was not pursuing it at all.

No, you might not get the pen, but you might prevent this person from perpetrating the same thing on others. It seems clear they were in violation, and a shame that they'll get away with it. OTOH, you aren't the eBay watchdog, and no one should insist you should be.

I wish you the best.

[Hugh]

If the seller backs out from a practical point of view it's all over, unpleasant as it is.

Regards
Hugh

Edit to add: the seller certainly learnt a lot since the first listing!!

Edited by Hugh, 24 May 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Hirsch]

It all hinges on whether or not an eBay auction does generate a legally binding contract. If it does, then the pen now belongs to the original buyer. who fulfilled all of the terms of the original contract. The seller violated the contract by retaining possession, and is now listing an item that no longer belongs to him without the consent of the actual owner. If eBay allows a second sale once they are made aware of the situation, they may well have liability for any loss suffered by the original buyer. In addition there may well be recourse through legal agencies. It all depends on how much time and effort (and potentially money) the original buyer wants to put into this.

In the end, it's just a pen.

[John Danza]

In the end, it's just a pen.

Geez, if any of us believed that, we wouldn't be spending all this time on these forums!