Can any one supply the answer?
Sometimes on these pen forums you read about some pen caches being found in obscure locations. Where does one look for these pockets of pens, antique shops, estate sales and how do you know if the items are priced fairly?
Thanks for any info!
Lee![Posted Image](http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
SNIP--
WHERE AND HOW DO SERIOUS COLLECTORS FIND THESE CACHES OF PENS? I'VE ALWAYS BEEN AMAZED AT THIS! THANKS
Hi Lee,
Suspect you are up on where anyone can find- in general- the old pens: retail dealers, tin cans at flea markets, internet auctions sites, non-internet auctions sites (eg. Bonhams, now with Propas working there), internet message boards, pen shows, etc.
But, where do people come up with the "hoards" some of us bleat about from time to time online? Stuff such as:http://fountainpenbo...ction-oct-2010/ http://fountainpenbo...nt-heeeaar-you/ and
http://fountainpenbo...f-the-pen-show/ Or where in general do the "big" online sellers (most big sellers today of course ARE online) of pens come up with regular stock for resale?Well, the answers in general will be very... general. Indeed, they perhaps will degenerate into platitude, even bromide.
Can you tell I've been toying wtih doing an article on this subject?
How does the pro fiction writer answer, "where do you get your ideas?"?
How does any dealer in old stuff, even true antiquities, get his stock?
I suppose ultimately the general issues/skills in play include: 1)
skill/knack/experience for the subject at hand, 2)
NETWORKING (yeah, go define that) and 3)
Willingness to embrace the expense of large scale purchases and the "hassle" of playing dealer.Collectable pendom is a niche field no doubt. Very few have taken on sales as any sort of full time occupation. For many it is avocation, hobby perhaps run amuck. Despite the "glory" of playing at retailing, there is significant risk and opportunity cost regarding time, unsold stock, etc. Perhaps rather than explicit boundaries (though one can imagine general lines) the spectrum from f "end user" to "pure dealer" is a continuum, with large regions of overlap (or does that change us from "spectrum" to "Venn Diagram"?). Most out there who seem to be big dealers in old pens either deal in modern pens too (a different game), have other, primary occupation, have spouse with "day" job, have pension in parallel, etc. This is tough business to live on, though a couple manage it well.
Very few have abruptly discovered old pens, bought none for personal use, and simply decided to become mongers of old pens, though I know at least one fellow in the hobby with experience selling other old collectables who with minimal (iirc) exposure to old pens decided to add them to his sale menagerie.
Most who deal in pens, most who manage to find "hoards" start out as collectors. Some take a table at pen show once in life to blow out entire collection or release collection via an organized auction, but don't really make the jump to dealer hunting stock for resale. Others, a small percentage of the small percentage of collectors who even attend pen shows, become regular table holders on the circuit. Once a collector makes the jump to buying pens actively for resale (not just liquidating longstanding parts of his own collection), the mephistophelian deal is done, and he has entered the dark side.
But, finding the hoard, or at least stock via single purchases, is the trick, isn't it. Can't just order from the factory, right?
That's where skill, effort and networking enter the game. Luck, too, I suppose.
Once one establishes his areas of sales interest, he can buy pens- with considerable time and effort- at pen shows. I have 12 years experience as a hack-amateur-newbie pen collector (hmmm... a bit conflicted, I am). If I spend three days at a 150-table pen shows, examine 15,0000 pens, with luck I can return home with 50-100 for resale, having pulled one of each 100-200 that meets condition, interest, pricing that allows me to buy it. Yeah, we hunt ebay too. Skill is key to grading pens, knowing wholesale and retail values, having sense of the challenge to resell any given pen. Dealing, fairly, with hundreds of pens at once is no small trick.
Being wiling and able to buy the above, illustrates the embracing of the hassle factor. I bought a 1000+ pen collection this summer. More than 75% truly junker stuff (broken worn Avons and Arnolds, no joke) but with one uber-rarity for my personal collection and with enough tolerable name material that when all is said and done (and there will be a great deal of "saying" to get this bunch "done") the economics of it will work out ok, even if I in turn blow out some of the low end stuff en masse to those who like that sort, and many collectors do.
Skill comes into play in being able to evaluate a mass of pens, or at least (as iin the case of some old Montblancs in my last hoard purchase; I don't do old MB's) having a vague idea as to value/era and having contacts to provide info on pens outside one's usual focus. Encountering 200-pen hoards does not do one any good if one is not sure he is getting a bulk price vs a supra-retail price. One needs to be able to grade and to know markets, to figure cost of restoration, to decide if he is buying hoard for his own personal collection-- nothing wrong with paying retail for 100 or 1000 pens if one wants them for his own collection--- or for resale, to weigh the time involved in subsequent liquidation.
Of course, networking and success at hunting is key to being able to start the processes cited above. Many have the dream to find hoards of old pens (or of any other collectable of interest). Many even have some ability to resell said pens, offering them in shops, online, at pen shows with some success, knowing the value of the finds, factoring costs of repair, etc. But all that is of limited use in dealing with hoards, if he does not encounter... hoards.
Presence in the hobby and longstanding contacts are the driving forces there, I believe. If one has a big mouth online and is known for a willingness to deal- preferably fairly- some hoards will find their way to him. If one has been a dealer for twenty years and supplied quality pens to collectors, they will recall who was that reliable source when the time to sell arrives. Luck of course is a factor. Two people have tables at a pen show. A grandchild of a deceased collector wanders in with 500 pens, walks past one table as he happens not to see many of the same pens, then speaks to the collector at next table who has a few out. That collector- perhaps even with no online presence, with no retail site- ends up grabbing hundreds of pens. Heck, at one LA Pen SHow, I was sitting next to my often-roommate at these things, MIke Dvoretz, and a fellow strolled in front of our table not even looking at us, but wth three 48-pen pen cases in hand. I literally called out to him, "do you have pens for sale?". He turned and came over, having not even been glancing our way in his walk, and Mike and I ended up sharing a purchase of many very nice vintage pens. Luck. Chutzpah, etc.
But, getting back to what I think is your core point, the
pen hoards are the really fun part, though not all work as deals and some involve fair hassle. But, they are out there. Someone collects ten years and wants out abruptly (shift in interest, financial issues, etc). Dealers often can buy out large collections at a fair wholesale value. The collector will not get retail, but he can sell in a day what will take even the dealer years to liquidate, and which might take him more years to liquidate with considerable effort probably at lower price than the dealer's final sales point.
Then there are estates, which crop up in different settings. One might find an auction. Or, as one pen friend did in one of the links I provided, one might find a hoard in possession of an antiques dealer, that had to have been a liquidated collection (125 decent Parkers, most restored and clean). Old store stock finds today are few and far between, but still happen.
In the old days pre-internet, well networked collectors (and dealers, with overlap), spent untold hours cultivating pickers, people all over the land who spotted pens in shops, flea markets, etc. They would buy out the picker's finds, good and bad, hoping to teach the picker to find good stuff, while hoping the picker didn't get so good or networked enough on his own, as to no longer need to sell pens to the collector/dealer-in-chief
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Today that approach to pen finding is less powerful, as many "pickers" now are sellers on ebay, no longer feeding pens to would-be-dealers. The net has opened the hobby. In the pre-internet era, I could not have developed the dealer-role I have today. I would not have had the time to hunt in the wild or- being relatively late to the party- had the chance to establish a picker network. Things change.
One can argue whether it is a good idea to suck up pen collections left and right in a tough economy. Perhaps one will end up "stuck" with many old pens in a diminished market. Fair worry, but one I've considered and and content to embrace. Tough economies bring out collections but increase the risk in taking on collections. So it goes. Pick the poison. I'm willing to cough up cash for significant collections and that makes me a reasonable target for those with old pens to sell en masse, Gary, Bob, David N, Rob and others skilled at this obviously make the same choice and thus get hoards too.
And, don't discount luck
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-david