72 replies to this topic

[Gary D]

Gary,

 

Is the MB 206 filling? If so do not bother to check the sac, it should be ok.

 

Don't send that 206 to MB, they don't have the parts and probably not even the skills for that sort of repair. It is rather easy and you can do it yourself.

 

I have some 206 and I can do a photo manual showing how to open it and change the sac. You will only need to buy a sac and some shellac. If you are in US David Nishimura can help you, if you are in Europe, Peter Twydle can help you herethere also.

 

Let me know if you need help

It actually fills very nicely - I just purchased it off FPN shortly before they went down.  I would like to use it at work but fear that the sac may fail if it's old resulting in a bit of a mess.  Trying to be a little proactive.

 

Gary

[Gary D]

Gary,

 

Is the MB 206 filling? If so do not bother to check the sac, it should be ok.

 

Don't send that 206 to MB, they don't have the parts and probably not even the skills for that sort of repair. It is rather easy and you can do it yourself.

 

I have some 206 and I can do a photo manual showing how to open it and change the sac. You will only need to buy a sac and some shellac. If you are in US David Nishimura can help you, if you are in Europe, Peter Twydle can help you herethere also.

 

Let me know if you need help

That would be exceptional if you could do a photo manual!  

 

Gary

[welch]

My big request to all you new-to-FPB members is not to forget us once FPN is back online and you have your usual stomping grounds back.

 

I know we're a smaller board, but we have a nice focus on old pens.  We do need material contributed (that includes of course your questions) to continue.

 

regards

 

david

 

Note: I have been planting comments on FPG that this board is loaded with the best repair-people and the most knowledgable collectors...and that those who know the most are willing to share the knowledge. 

 

[Not that I will ever be a collector...more like an accumulating user who is fascinated by the background of pen design. As in, why did pen companies go wild with marble in the '30s? I assume that they found a better material than hard rubber or whatever was used in the mono-color pens of the '20s. ("because it was there"). And that taste changed around 1950. Marbled colors went out with running boards and gestures toward the running board and extended fenders in cars. Nobody wants a design from last decade...until 20 years from now. 

 

It has been fun, however, to buy and repair those packs of a dozen third-tier pens -- some without nibs and some witghout tops to their caps -- just to run my hands through twenty years of "Stratford" pens or Travellers, or to have one of the last-gasp Moore pens.

 

Likewise, I suspect that Parker and Sheaffer competed to see which company could design the least-messy filing system. The cartridge/converter seems to have won over both the capillary and the snorkel at about the same time that ballpoints became reliable enough to push fountain pens to the side. However, if the market wanted a no-mess pen, then that explains why neither company bothered to develop a waterproof/sun-proof/snow-proof/bullet-proof ink. Who would want an ink that bound itself to your shirt?]

[Rick Krantz]

I always thought that it would be cool to create a list of iconic vintage pens that are a cross representation of the bigger makers, or that were significant that they should be included in a sampling of the period, say 1900-1970

For example...

Parker duofold
Parker vacumatic
Parker 51
Parker 75

Waterman 12
Waterman red ripple
Waterman 100 year

Sheaffer lifetime flattop
Sheaffer balance
Sheaffer TD
Sheaffer snorkel

Wahl metal gf
Wahl eversharp skyline
Eversharp symphony

Conklin crescent filler

Esterbrook j

That's a basic off the top of my head list, and certainly arguments could be made one way or another, but it would be like a "type collection" as they have in coin collecting.

[david i]

Hi Rick,

 

There have been "Top 10", "Top 25" polls here n' there. Perhaps we could do a thread along these lines, with three proposals:

 

1. Yer First Ten Pens
2. Yer First Twenty Five Pens
3. Yer First One Hundred Pens

This of course would focus on USA-made pens, though that could be expanded later. And the goal would be to go eclectic, targeting the most popular series first, and working progressively obscure, though still trying for key makes and models.

 

regards

 

d

[John Danza]

Wow, go away for a couple of days and a thread can really get away from you.

 

I agree that starting with a particular model is a great way to start a collection for a single manufacturer, and the Duofold is perfect for a Parker collection. It's good because they are plentiful (for the most part), so you'll have a good selection to choose from as you acquire them. Because of this, you should be selective and look hard at the pieces you're considering, because it's very easy to have caps and barrels from different pens swapped together, resulting in pens with very slight differences in color that might be hard to see unless you handle the pen. But it's important to the value that you make sure the cap and barrel match.

 

While a Duofold mini-collection may sound easy to pull together, it's not at all and will be quite challenging and diverse. Here's a quick glimpse at the styles and colors (I may miss some, so everyone feel free to add to this):

 

1. Hard Rubber: Red senior, Red Junior, Black plain Senior, Black plain Junior, Black chased Senior, Black chased Junior. All of the former with and without cap bands (wide and narrow for Seniors). Oh, there are Large, Medium and Small "Duofold" imprints of each of these.

 

2. Permanite Flat Top: Red, Black, Green, Lapis (white specks, blue specks), Yellow (yellow threads, black threads), Black and Pearl. Senior, Junior, Ladies and Special sizes of each.

 

3. Permanite Streamlined: Red, Black, Green, Lapis (white specks, blue specks), Yellow, Black and Pearl, Green and Pearl, Burgundy and Black, Seafoam Green. Senior, Junior, Ladies, Special, Juniorette, and Vest sizes of each.

 

This list isn't designed to intimidate you. It's meant to show you the diversity and what a great collection it'll be when you're done with it. It would be a very cool journey to be on.

 

If you go this direction, please make your first acquisition the Duofold Book by David Shepherd and Dan Zazove.

 

Good hunting!

[Idazle]

If you go this direction, please make your first acquisition the Duofold Book by David Shepherd and Dan Zazove.

 

 

This is a very sensible advice indeed!!!

[Idazle]

 

My pleasure Gary.

 

The Montblanc's that you collect, does it make a difference to you if they are in original condition or completely overhauled?

 

 

As a general principle, it does make a difference to me whether a pen is or not in original condition. All my Parkers and Sheaffers are in mint original condition. My red 1926 Senior Duofold certainly is. However, when talking of vintage MB I feel I have to relax that rule as most pens from the late 1930s and 1940s have been reassembled from parts either during the harsh war and post-war times or recently by unscrupulous dealers. Of course there are vintage MB pens in original condition, but it is difficult to tell them apart and they generally come at high prices.

 

Carlos:

 

Why do you say that vintage 30-to 50´s MB are more prone to be found already altered than any other brand?

 

I don't agree with that statement. From my experience all brands have the exact same problem and most pens do not arrive to me altered. On top of that if a pen does need a replacement part as long as an exact original, similar and same age replacement part is used the pen will remain original.  Some arrive needing repair and I do some of those repairs myself and have professionals do others, but I have never noticed that MB pens arrive to me more tweaked that any other brand and 99% of them arrive in all original condition.

 

Pelikan, Sheaffer, Parker, Montblanc, Kaweco... all other are in the same circumstances regarding to vintage findings in my opinion, most need repair of any kind ( mostly sacs, gaskets, corks, pistons repair or with cap lip cracks) but the vast majority arrives with all parts correct and original.

 

 

Sheaffer, Parker, etc. did not suffer the harshness of war neither had their factories bombed. It is a well stablished fact that during war times and after, due to shortage of materials, MB had to assemble pens from whatever parts available even if they did not belong to a particular model or belonged to an earlier production. That, along with the destruction of MB archives by fire, explains why its is often so difficult to date a MB pen or to ascertain whether it originally came from the factory as you see it. Besides, after the war many pre-war MB pens were disassembled to sell the gold nibs and the surviving ones had to be fitted with new nibs of a later period.That is history, well known facts, so much so that some modern dealers take advantage of that state of confussion to assemble frankenpens with parts from different models an eras and say "well you know, the pen looks atypical because is a war pen". Of course not all vintage MB pens are in this situation.

 

Anyway, I do not want to derail this thread, which is about Parker. If you feel like we can continue this interesting discussion in another thread.

Edited by Idazle, 30 December 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Hugh]

As a "casual" Parker person I find it hard to go past the P51 Aerometric as "the" Parker to start with. It combines performance, ink capacity ,durability and "kerb creed" in a single package. Another iconic pen is the early red Duofold in either senior ( the "big red") or the cheaper Junior version. Another "must have" is a P45 for the reason it was such a long running model that combined quality, performance and durability in a fairly inexpensive package although lack the prestige of other models. The 75 is another classic but it all depends on how much you want to spend and how you want ti use it.

 

Personally I'd suggest a 51 as a good starting point .

 

Regards

Hugh

[AeRoberto]

When collecting Parker's are there many counterfeits to watch out for?  Particularly the Duofolds?

 

Gary

 

 

Usually it's easy to find Sonnet counterfeits, somebody makes pretty good 51s, but I don't know of counterfeit Duofolds (apart from claimed imitations), maybe because of the materials.

Edited by AeRoberto, 30 December 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Gary D]

As a "casual" Parker person I find it hard to go past the P51 Aerometric as "the" Parker to start with. It combines performance, ink capacity ,durability and "kerb creed" in a single package. Another iconic pen is the early red Duofold in either senior ( the "big red") or the cheaper Junior version. Another "must have" is a P45 for the reason it was such a long running model that combined quality, performance and durability in a fairly inexpensive package although lack the prestige of other models. The 75 is another classic but it all depends on how much you want to spend and how you want ti use it.

 

Personally I'd suggest a 51 as a good starting point .

 

Regards

Hugh

Hugh;

 

It appears there are a number of ways to go when collecting the P51's as there are so many different areas to focus on.  However, as I said in another post about Sheaffer and the nib being covered - the P51's don't appeal to me.  Maybe if I held one I would see things differently.  I first thought of KitchenAide appliances when I first looked at the variation and type of colours of the P51's.   

 

Gary

[Gary D]

 

Edit by Ye Olde Admin:  In his HELLO post, Gary noted an interest in Parker pens.  The Parker question has been split from the original thread for fresh consideration in the Parker Forum.

 

Hey David;

 

I have a five and dime pen - a Keko!  However, I would be interested in starting a collection that can tell a story about the history of Fountain Pens.  I don't know why but I'm not a big fan of Parker.  Any suggestions?

 

Gary

 

Just finished watching an interesting interview with Geoff Parker the Great Grandson of Mr. Parker.  He talks a bit about the history and collecting of pens.  For those that haven't watched it here is the link: http://parkerpens.net/media.html

 

Gary

[david i]

Geoff is a nice guy. We've chatted at a couple of the Chicago shows. Thanks for sharing the link. Tony hosts some good material over there.

 

regards

 

d

[OcalaFlGuy]

I always thought that it would be cool to create a list of iconic vintage pens that are a cross representation of the bigger makers, or that were significant that they should be included in a sampling of the period, say 1900-1970

For example...

Parker duofold
Parker vacumatic
Parker 51
Parker 75


That's a basic off the top of my head list, and certainly arguments could be made one way or another, but it would be like a "type collection" as they have in coin collecting.

 

While I would agree it doesn't have the cachet of it's higher priced brethren, I think it's hard to omit the one pen with the longest continuous production period for Parker. The P-45.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited by OcalaFlGuy, 30 December 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[CaptiveLight]

I like the Parker 45's ... for me they are a good place to start a collection, plenty of variety, plenty of them around, easy to fix and not too expensive. I think it also helps that I was dragged though my school years owning a variety of them so I have a natural soft spot for them. As has been said, they don't have the prestige of some of the other pens but they are fun ...

[Idazle]

 

I always thought that it would be cool to create a list of iconic vintage pens that are a cross representation of the bigger makers, or that were significant that they should be included in a sampling of the period, say 1900-1970

For example...

Parker duofold
Parker vacumatic
Parker 51
Parker 75


That's a basic off the top of my head list, and certainly arguments could be made one way or another, but it would be like a "type collection" as they have in coin collecting.

 

While I would agree it doesn't have the cachet of it's higher priced brethren, I think it's hard to omit the one pen with the longest continuous production period for Parker. The P-45.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

 

+1 

[Hugh]

There's a couple of interesting models that fall below the radar at times, the P65 is one. I have several and find them to be good to use, perhaps worth considering as it's an open nib model and cheaper than a P75. The metal models seem better in the hand than plastic barrel one to me. A P75 in sterling silver would be nice as well !!

Regards
Hugh

[david i]

I like the Parker 45's ... for me they are a good place to start a collection, plenty of variety, plenty of them around, easy to fix and not too expensive. I think it also helps that I was dragged though my school years owning a variety of them so I have a natural soft spot for them. As has been said, they don't have the prestige of some of the other pens but they are fun ...

 

Here's a shot of a Herlequin. I happen to have a tray of each of the two common styles.

 

 

regards

 

d

[David Nishimura]

 

When collecting Parker's are there many counterfeits to watch out for?  Particularly the Duofolds?

 

Gary

 

 

Usually it's easy to find Sonnet counterfeits, somebody makes pretty good 51s, but I don't know of counterfeit Duofolds (apart from claimed imitations), maybe because of the materials.

 

 

There have been counterfeit Duofolds, mostly Mandarins and bandless orange pens, plus fake 51s again in the rarer colors and as clear demonstrators. You can read more about it here: http://vintagepensbl...rch/label/fakes

[Gary D]

Thanks for the link http://vintagepensbl...rch/label/fakes - I've bookmarked it for reference.  

 

This whole thread is an incredible read - it makes it so much easier to learn when there are so many knowledgable people like yourselves out there.  I like Rick Krantz's idea of a sampling from a particular period from various makers.  However, Parker is indeed very interesting with a very diverse selection of pens.  

 

Gary

Edited by Gary D, 31 December 2013 - 04:14 AM.