Fixed?...

MIT would be great, they encompass all the careers I'm looking into. University of Chicago is also in the realm

Nearly!

"I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I would otherwise have never known prior to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't acknowledge it as a number 222. Now are there Waterman 111's and 333's? What do these pens date to, and their current values (given these auctions were from time ago)²."

1) would otherwise have never known prior OR, more simply & clearly, "didn't know before"
2) When do these pens date from? What are their current values (given these auctions were from some time ago.)

Best wishes!

Robin

Thanks Robin, that second mistake I can't believe I missed. So the final version;

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never knew previously to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't acknowledge it as a number 222. Now are there Waterman 111's and 333's? When do these pens date from? What are their current values (given these auctions were from some time ago.)

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never knew previously to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't know it was named a number 222. Now are their Waterman 111's and 333's? What do these pens date to, and there current values (given these auctions were from time ago).

http://www.liveaucti...om/item/1281838

The 'ofs', "theirs", "knews", "whats", "theres" etc,, are a bit headache inducing. If you would, please reformat. I really will take stab at answer, once I can follow the questions. For a guy targeting MIT for school...


regards

Fixed?...

MIT would be great, they encompass all the careers I'm looking into. University of Chicago is also in the realm

George,

When you go to an estate sale, you go find whatever your looking for, pay, and leave. So the answer to your question is yes. Along with the Parkers pens, I added some second and third tier pens to the lot and I paid $120 for everything. I also bought some first edition books,etc. The chase is much more enjoyable than the selling part. Both have there positive and negative outcomes.

But I thought they were in some sort of trade limbo? You said it yourself:

I didn't buy them at an auction, I actually went to an estate sale and there were several. I have them in a trade, so they are being held onto for that particular reason.

Are these the 3 vacumatic pens and 3 pencils that you originally talked about in the following ebay listing? Did you really buy the pens at an estate sale?

http://www.ebay.com/...=p2047675.l2557

Regards,
George

George,

Nice lot of vacs, did you buy them? As I've said before, I'm no longer on ebay, and I no longer purchase items from da bay. Good deal it looks to be. And yes, I have some of the pens put away for a trade.

I was recently looking at some pens, and I discovered something that I otherwise would of never knew previously to this find. The pen is a Waterman 222 silver eyedropper. The numbering system is odd for this pen, and I've never seen one with such information on it. I've seen pictures, just didn't acknowledge it as a number 222. Now are there Waterman 111's and 333's? What do these pens date to, and their current values (given these auctions were from time ago).

http://www.liveaucti...om/item/1281838

So Brandon, did you ever receive the 3 Vacumatics and 3 Vacumatic pencils that you bought from the estate sale?

George,

When you go to an estate sale, you go find whatever your looking for, pay, and leave. So the answer to your question is yes. Along with the Parkers pens, I added some second and third tier pens to the lot and I paid $120 for everything. I also bought some first edition books,etc. The chase is much more enjoyable than the selling part. Both have there positive and negative outcomes.

Well, at least someone is trying to stir the pot a bit.

I was thinking I may have to post some pictures and make some ridiculous comments about them to liven up the place. Guess that idea wasn't unique.


Oh, yeah. Now that I think about it, AltecGreen, you probably don't need that 3rd pen from the left, because it really doesn't fit in with the rest of your collection. I would be glad to take it off your hands for a hundred bucks.

...... Just to do you a favor and all ........

It's not even my pen. I went over to a dealer's house to drop off some pen boxes for pens he sold for me and to pick up my money. This pen was lying on a tray. I figured I would have some fun. Saw a bunch of other very old pens today although those were being sold when I showed up. Also looked through a 400+ pen collection that had just come in but the whole collection was already sold.

I might post some more pens I don't own later. Some interesting Parker prototypes.

Is he a vintage pen dealer or a collector? Scare pen you had a chance to see.

A quick one for today.


The pen is a Zemax. I'm not sure of the model. I'm not even sure Zemax had model numbers. Zemax was a company founded in 1934 in Turin by Massimo Zeme, hence the name Zemax. The pens are not quite equal to the quality of the major houses but the pens are of good quality, had interesting trim, and by all accounts were good value for the money at the time. The big attraction of this particular pens are the two rather intricate and ornate bands on the cap and barrel. The bands give the pen a very elegant look and is something not common in vintage pens. Modern on the otherhand.....




barrel band



cap band



The pen has a celluloid section.

I just keep coming back to this pen, I love the look of this pen. Congrats on the find!

Such beautiful Pelikans, all unique barrels. Are they all 100N Magnums?

You need to learn about pens before you can teach others about them.

In another thread I asked what could be learned from a set of pens showing steps in the manufacturing process. Now that you have had a chance to think about them (you may want additional photos showing key details-I certainly do) teach me. Let's start with the raw material and what must have been the first step in the process.

Well, the first step is to acquire whatever material the pen turner would like to use. In this case, a moss agate plastic. After spinning it to specs, they than put the holed in it where the sac, and lever will go. They than cut into a carrel and cap, and start degrading (correct word?) the tops and end of barrel to have stepped pattern. I can speculate that next (pictures aren't close enough to show), the cap band cutout and lever filler cutout are placed, and once in place everything is attached.

Good starting point. Lets look closely at the material first. What appear to be two pieces of rod stock are found in the two left-most slots. Some pens are made from rod stock and some from tube stock. We need a better picture from David to know for sure what the material form is though suspect it is rod stock that must be bored out to form both the barrel and cap. I also suspect that there are two sizes of rod stock, again one for the cap and the other for the barrel. The third and fourth items seem to be caps in varying stages of production. The fifth item looks to be a barrel at some early stage of fabrication. Lets start with the material choice and establish what we are starting with before moving to far into the manufacturing steps.

Q1: Why would I say "I suspect it is rod stock that must be bored out"?
Q2: We might also ask why choose rod over tube?
Q3: Does one form of raw material have advantages over the other?
Q4: Is the fabrication process of the cap/barrel the same for both rod and tube or do they involve different manufacturing steps?
Q5: How might tube stock be made? How many can we come up with? (Drilling a bore down the center of a rod is one way but not what I'm looking for.)
Q6: Do some materials lend themselves to being produced in one form (rod vs. tube) preferentially?
Q7: Knowing what the material is helps. Though obvious to most veteran collectors, we should also identify what material Waterman used for this pen.

Pop your answers in to the questions. I don't necessarily know the answers either so don't be discouraged. I am merely asking the questions I asked myself when I looked at the picture just now as I wrote this. It does help that I have an example of this pen at home and that I have experience machining parts though it is not necessary.

You might ask why is this important and that would be a fair question. For what it is worth, I have had an number of intense discussions over this very topic--how did XXXX actually manufacture the YYYY model pen. Knowing or having insights into how a pen was produced can give one an advantage as a collector or repairer.

Others are free to play if they wish. Feel free to answer and ask questions. This should be a fun exercise. I'll pop back in when I can. I'm sure it will get more interesting as we start putting the material in the screw lathe and turning our virtual pen.

Q1. It may be rod stock because of the tppe of material, and the thickness of the material...

Q2. Rod stock may be better because you have better control of the final outcome of the product...

Q3. Some raw materials are more prone to breaking and cracking overtime, so some may choose one over the pother.

Q4. I believe rod stock may take longer, and you have more freedom to create what you'd like vs. A tube material where some of the process is done, and it'll take a shorter time.

Q5. Tube stock, besides drilling, could also be poured into a mold where'd a specified sized hole is in place.

Q6. I would say yes... because some materials will crack if stretched too thin (ie. tube stock) vs. regular stock has unlimited uses in any material. Also i imagine that some stock is re-engineered to be stronger.

Q7. Moss agate was used.

I appreciate this quiz, its truly helping me learn, and verifying with others what is right and wrong.

You need to learn about pens before you can teach others about them.

In another thread I asked what could be learned from a set of pens showing steps in the manufacturing process. Now that you have had a chance to think about them (you may want additional photos showing key details-I certainly do) teach me. Let's start with the raw material and what must have been the first step in the process.

Well, the first step is to acquire whatever material the pen turner would like to use. In this case, a moss agate plastic. After spinning it to specs, they than put the holed in it where the sac, and lever will go. They than cut into a carrel and cap, and start degrading (correct word?) the tops and end of barrel to have stepped pattern. I can speculate that next (pictures aren't close enough to show), the cap band cutout and lever filler cutout are placed, and once in place everything is attached.

Because of liability reasons.? I really don't know other than that...

I'll look into purchasing those books.

Hopefully Brandon, none of us here (including self) are helping to create a better con man.

Time will tell.

This hurts that you'd say this.

PatMorgan,

Im more than happy to answer your questions.

It will be next year, school year, when I'm a senior in which I'll be taking photography. So I don't exactly know the questions to your photography classroom questions.

As for making deals, I'm not going to report you, I strive to work out any outcomes that arrive, and if it can't be, we'll go our separate ways and maybe on the next transaction it goes to both parties likings.


2 points here:

1-First you stated that your teacher had a Canon 5D. Is this the photography teacher and if so, is this teaching you in another class.

2-Making deals, Brandon, i told you I would not enter into a transaction with you even when you are age of consent. Based on the some of the things you have done which are not ethical, I am not comfortable entering into any transaction with you. You have demonstrated through the doll transaction, the violation of terms of service on Ebay, and other things, it is wiser for me to not enter any transaction with you even when you are of age of consent. Based on this, the chances of you doing a market watch on me on the basis of a transaction we have together, likely will not happen unless there are so many changes in the way you do business.

Lastly, the statement I made was on the basis of this:

http://fountainpenbo...age__hl__repair

In this thread you whined and then admitted there was a good chance there was a communication error on your part.

You offer your wares freely for anyone to examine as you have stated in a message, I am sure we will hear about it.

Correct, he owned a 5D Mk III, and I'll be taking his class next school year. I hope to learn better photography skills.

I understand your concern with dealing with a minor is business.

Are you taking any classes with this teacher right now?

Concerning business dealings, is that you all have to say? I understand your concerning with dealing with a minor in business? Nothing else concerning the other things I posted?

I am not currently taking any classes with this teacher. He is our new track coach as of last year, and was just given the position of district photographer.

Referencing business with a minor, though not illegal, may be looked down upon and seem unethical from other perspectives. I can understand how ones ambitions may get in the way to the point where certain rules don't apply, in the case to ebay, which may demonstrate to individuals that I can't be trusted.

Here is your chance again.

You made a statement about me and I am giving you the chance to rethink determining if you want to retract it, then apologize for it, keep it and do nothing, expand upon it based upon further conversations we have had,

So what are going to do?

And PS,

Your link to me about Aries is not a good thing to do.

I feel dumb asking... but why is it a bad thing....

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

Brandon,

It is unfortunate once again that things are not being seen by you.

This was your statement to me:


What is exactly your purpose, I don't understand what your problem is. Can the world not have young entrepreneur? This is what the world is based on. Its extremely discouraging when your having someone so concerned with the little things, that you can no longer jump into as hobby with both feet.

Also stop dirtying up my threads. If you have a problem start a thread regarding your hatred towards young entrepreneurs such as myself or message me. This is no way to go about your feelings.

====
There are a number of remarks in this. First you assumed I was attacking you because I had a hatred towards young entrepreneurs. That would mean I hate every young entrepreneur. That means to me, you are calling me a bigot towards any individual who is young and wants to be an entrepreneur. You made a generalized statement at the same time making an assumption concerning how I feel towards a large group. Look at your words and rethink them. You have called me a person who has hatred towards young entrepreneurs.

You crossed a line when you stated this is no way to go about your feelings. Are you now playing psychotherapist with me? What this does is tell us more about you than it does about me. Look at your words and rethink them.

What is my purpose you ask. You want people to teach you, you say teach me. There is message after message here with guidance for you to learn. I see very little of it has entered into practice on your part. You claim to be more mature than what last October when there was discussion? Are you more mature or have just gained time toward aging.

Something you must remember and that is something that many younger people do not realize, I am going to be 56 in a few weeks, I was once a teenager myself. I went through adolescence but differently than a great many teens my age. While people I knew in the 70s were smoking different substances I chose not to partake in it or be friends with them. I preferred to spend my time with older individuals such as being with my grandmother at the senior center because I enjoyed their life experiences and hearing their stories. I spent time with teachers rather than classmates and assisted them and in turn they tutored me in their break time when I needed it. I preferred older friends when I was teen rather than some of the foolish people who were around me. The few friends I had, were friends who were quite mature, more mature than I was.

When I was a teen I thought I knew everything. It was during VietNam and I protested the engagement, worked for politicians at the presidential and local level to get out of VietNam, spent my time during election periods selling buttons and handing out flyers. I thought I was so self important and knew everything. I was admitted to a college that had over 2000 applicants from around the country and I was one of 75 applicants admitted to the program and one of 45 to actually attend the program. I knew my black and white darkroom stuff like a pro. My high school photography teacher was a tech representative for Kodak and taught me well. It impressed the tech staff at the college who maintained the darkrooms but it did not impress my classmates. In fact, my classmates could easily in art knock me to the ground with their designs and their ability to create. I was a C student and deserved it because I did not have the art background that so many did. I never had the training in understanding the concepts and terms. I did have what they did not have and that was technical ability to salvage a print and soup it up and drop coffee beans into water and put the paper in it to create a sepia effect and then retouch their photograph to save it. The hotshot photographer from high school was not the hotshot photographer in college and I chose to leave after 1 year and go to a liberal arts college. The most important thing I got out of going to college is to realize it was not for me. I learned that I did not know everything and had to learn that I was no longer a teenager but the real world is not about knowing everything, it about the ability to discern.

Lots of people here have given you a free education in many different areas. From what I have seen if I were to grade you, it would be unsatisfactory. You want to consider yourself an expert and sell pens as an expert because you have read books over the last few months and have purchased pens and have done the research. You might be book learned on many levels and that might help you pass a test or two, but there is a lot lacking.

You apologized to me and from what I see it is a not a real apology. I accept real apologies, I do not accept apologies to placate me, I accept apologies when they are true acts of remorse because the act of contrition is the right act.

This is your statement to me:

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

----------
Your last paragraph of many of the older generation hate being told a younger generation what to do.

Oh the arrogance of youth. How rude and arrogant. Many of us on this board who have placed words here to assist you in becoming a better, more ethical individual by offering you lessons on how to improve and mature and you dare to have this arrogance towards any of us who are of the older generation. The older generation are the very people you are coming to ask them to share their knowledge of pendom and business so you can make a buck selling your wares and you dare to insult me and anyone else here? Oh the arrogance and disrespect. People are giving their many years worth knowledge that they spent thousands of hours learning, perhaps thousands of dollars to hundred of thousands of dollars collecting and offering it freely to anyone who asks a question. And you dare to have the arrogance to make the rude remark as follows:
I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

You might feel you have matured, but you have not. The very people you are using to get their knowledge so you can be that young entrepreneur and the big businessman, these are the people you launched an insult towards.

High school from what I have observed is that time when students think they know everything, I was one of those people and still witness it today. College teaches you if one wants to learn that they do not know everything. If you want that younger generation vs older generation routine, then realize this, this older generation is giving you freely their knowledge and life experience so you can sell your wares to buyers. How rude of you Brandon, how rude.

I really, really do apologize for the interpretation of me calling you a bigot, I didn't choose my words well enough, and so it is my fault for this outcome. I truthfully need to choose my words better, and sharpen up on grammar.

Stereotyping has no place on a public forum, and I need to edit all posts which may coincide with this.

Pat, I also agree with your post relating to your friends of an older audience. I have the same likeness of older people, that you once did as a teen. I like to learn about the "good days," how easy it once was. The perfect word, nostalgia, comes to mind, though how can someone in the 90's have this? A great question, which I can't even answer.

The truth that lies between the two of us, if you learn from older people you will gain knowledge, but if you learn from less ambitious, less knowledgeable young people, there is not much you can learn from them, except say to yourself "thank gosh I didn't do that." I also did not partake in any activities which are illegal, though I can't say I haven't made stupid decisions which I regret.

I have been very fortunate to meet the people I have, ranging from homeless people, to top CEO's, to people who have million dollar pen collection, and seeing pens that I never knew existed, and learning how rare and expensive they are. Through my pen hobby, I'm not looking to necessarily make money off of others, but teach members about pens, while solidifying my collection and building on the great collection I have had the chance to build.

I do deeply regret and apologize for my actions in which have caused you to label me as rude, disrespectful, and arrogant. I will work on this, I can assure you.

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

That was the word I used when trying go show different subjects were being brought up in an unnecessary thread.

You were in this thread asked to show the vacumatics, have you received them as of yet? Do you have a link to the auction or sale message concerning the vacs?

Double post

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

That was the word I used when trying go show different subjects were being brought up in an unnecessary thread.

You were in this thread asked to show the vacumatics, have you received them as of yet? Do you have a link to the auction or sale message concerning the vacs?

I didn't buy them at an auction, I actually went to an estate sale and there were several. I have them in a trade, so they are being held onto for that particular reason.

PatMorgan,

Im more than happy to answer your questions.

It will be next year, school year, when I'm a senior in which I'll be taking photography. So I don't exactly know the questions to your photography classroom questions.

As for making deals, I'm not going to report you, I strive to work out any outcomes that arrive, and if it can't be, we'll go our separate ways and maybe on the next transaction it goes to both parties likings.


2 points here:

1-First you stated that your teacher had a Canon 5D. Is this the photography teacher and if so, is this teaching you in another class.

2-Making deals, Brandon, i told you I would not enter into a transaction with you even when you are age of consent. Based on the some of the things you have done which are not ethical, I am not comfortable entering into any transaction with you. You have demonstrated through the doll transaction, the violation of terms of service on Ebay, and other things, it is wiser for me to not enter any transaction with you even when you are of age of consent. Based on this, the chances of you doing a market watch on me on the basis of a transaction we have together, likely will not happen unless there are so many changes in the way you do business.

Lastly, the statement I made was on the basis of this:

http://fountainpenbo...age__hl__repair

In this thread you whined and then admitted there was a good chance there was a communication error on your part.

You offer your wares freely for anyone to examine as you have stated in a message, I am sure we will hear about it.

Correct, he owned a 5D Mk III, and I'll be taking his class next school year. I hope to learn better photography skills.

I understand your concern with dealing with a minor is business.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

I think I understand where you are coming from, Brandon. What I reply has to do with that, and also in reference to the comment that David has made:

It is true that one can infer many things in a real-time, face-to-face conversation that will have a very difficult task of transmission in a text-only medium. Two decades in, the bloom is coming a bit off the rose, as studies reveal some very harsh realities of virtual communications and social connectivity (see Sherry Turkle's "Alone Together"). So - it is absolutely paramount that, when we type at each other, we are as clear as we can be, choose our words carefully, and use the language of choice (in most of our cases, English) as correctly and precisely as possible.

Sometimes, that doesn't work out too well in your case, but - as has been pointed out on other occasions - something you can remedy. In this instance, David has made note of your misuse of the term infringe. Your words, as representative of your thoughts, are important to you. The more care you use in crafting your posts, the better the communication will be, and you'll reap higher value responses to your well-crafted questions.

HTH

I believe, and hope, a high quality post will help. I'll work on that, and I hope that its beneficial to all.

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

Can one infringe on a subject matter?

-d

That was the word I used when trying go show different subjects were being brought up in an unnecessary thread.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times.

It isn't your age that is the issue for most of us, but your lack of insight, introspection, and humility that turns people off. Believe me, I have students on a regular basis that are decades younger than me that enlighten me, that call me on stuff. Frankly, I tell them to, and am disappointed when they don't call me out.

You aren't there. In spite of a good many patient suggestions on this very board, you continue to miss the core issues that are holding you on the plateau of an immature world view. Like David, I have hope, but it is a far longer process with you than I would have imagined. If you had been one of my students, I would be questioning my methodology by now, but fortunately my success rates with people from ages 8 - 25 is very, very good.

Thanks for this post.

I'm not disregarding anything you have said, but I do take into account peoples posts, the cause and effects, but I think it just may be harder to show since its not face to face. I'm not trying to say this is the root of the cause, but we all interpret text different that a face to face conversation with body language, etc.

All I asked for some basic decyphering techniques for vacs, and instead I get people infringing on different subject matter.

1367281043[/url]' post='24265']
Excited! had to share, I'll expand this post when the pen arrives... But I started my Montblanc collection with a 1950s 244. Then a 50s (just post war, with a steel super flex nib) 144... They are the PEFECT pens for my hands. I have found not a single other pen as well sized and balanced for me. And so I got pretty dedicated to finishing out the X44 size collection with a 344... And I just won an eBay auction for a VERY nice condition 344 with an OB (I adore oblique nibs). So nice to be able to cap this little mini collection, sort of my first "finished" moment in pen collecting.

A review of the X44 family will follow once my 244 is back from Ron Zorn and the 344 arrives. I am looking forward to having them all in rotation together!

Perhaps you and the most others here already now about this, but I thought it could be interesting for the ones wich don't to show a little illustration I did once, to explain MB's numbering system. I call it "the magic triangle" and it should be read in ccw direction.

First digit stands for quality/price range,
second digit stands for filling system and
third digit stands for size.



Here's an example, a 332 (budget line, piston filler and smallest size):

…in comparison to a 139 (Meisterstück, pistonfiller and biggest size)



So, your "x44-familiy" is just defined to criterias of size and filling system. The 344 and the 744 do not have that much in common except size and filling system, because the 744 is a "Meisterstück" and the 344 is a budget line pen. Most collectors wouldn't call this a familiy.
But hey, criterias for collecting are a personally thing, perhaps it's exactly this what makes your collection unique! Looking forward for an illustrating picture.
Edit: Forgot to mention, that my illustration doesn't include the Overlay pens. Have to complete this one day...

Thanks for the numbering system, what can great resource.

Here is your chance again.

You made a statement about me and I am giving you the chance to rethink determining if you want to retract it, then apologize for it, keep it and do nothing, expand upon it based upon further conversations we have had,

So what are going to do?

And PS,

Your link to me about Aries is not a good thing to do.

I feel dumb asking... but why is it a bad thing....

Also I will retract that statement. And I apologize for any hurt feelings.

I understand many of the older generation hate being told by a younger generation what to do, and what not to do, so I have to understand this at times. This is just a general statement, not referencing any particular people.

Thanks David for a great response,

I understand prototype relates more to a company, in which a product is produced and the product is in its early stages, and isn't a good terms for a jeweler pen. I dont know what the perfect word for a jeweler overlay pen, in which its the only one. And the term one off I'm not applying to generic German silver pens, but more first tear solid gold pens.

Also while were taking about Watermans, thanks for thevinfo relating to the True Trunk, but continental safety pens, does the value depend on subject matter? I was just looking at some safety's with interesting aztec motifs, and that apart of design commands a much higher price than a chased continental overlay. Is this apart of statement correct? Subject matter...

Terms in use for pen with overlay applied by jeweler include... jeweler's overlay and/or jeweler-modified.

I don't own and have not dealt in the Italian overlay Waterman Safeties, but I would image intricacy, rarity, quality, theme and metal composition all contribute to value

regards

david

Thanks David,

Always a pleasure speaking with a significant figure who knows more than me, one of whom I can learn from.

As for making deals, I'm not going to report you, I strive to work out any outcomes that arrive, and if it can't be, we'll go our separate ways and maybe on the next transaction it goes to both parties likings.

To whom could you possibly report Pat?

regards

david

I would never report Pat. The pen world is small as I have learned, and if any sort of transaction went blurry, most of the time you could fix it without any sort of intervention from other members,etc.

Yet your quoted comment suggests you would...

regards

david

I was replying to his question;

"If the transaction does not go to your liking, will you then report as you have done previously about being taken advantage of?"

Which I don't believe I have ever done, but if it has, it must have been a mistake on my part.

My question is, why would you want me to rethink my statement, not that I shouldn't, but what do you want me to do...

Just so you can learn a bit about me, maybe read up about my astrological symbol;

http://www.huffingto...gy/aries/about/