In answer to David's question "What do you want? Seriously." here is my perspective as a very new FPB member, and an FPN member for about 6 years. FPN was, and is, a pretty good place for people new to fountain pens. You can learn a lot, partly from the large number of newbies, and also some very dedicated old timers. After the newness wears off though, there is not much room for open discussion, and certainly not for open disagreement.

Questioning the powers that be is risky. I have not been banned, but saw it happen often enough to see the pattern. Banning is also the rapid consequence of anyone who rouses the members, such as Brando090. "Away" is the euphemism used though. Apparently "banning" is too disruptive a label. I was heavily into a thread that included Brando090, in which he was attempting to sell what looked like floor sweeping pencil stubs and disposable ballpoints, at exorbitant "appraised" values. As soon as the moderator caught on, the thread was terminated, a bunch of posts disappeared, and Brando090 went "away". He lasted just over 30 days. For a while, I thought this was for the best. After some reflection, I began to think it was a shortsighted approach, as it erased what could still be a great example of what constitutes bad behavior on a board. It made no real attempt to educate the main offender. Also, it made perfectly clear that the FPN world view was that there is no disagreement, which is simply not realistic. About that time, FPN became pretty unappealing to me.

Through some perverse karmic twist of common interests, I found my path crossing Brando090's again, at a couple of audio and other boards, FPG, and most recently here at FPB. Based on what I've seen, his behavior, ethical sense, reading comprehension, and fluency in English, have not improved at all. That is in itself, frustrating, as I would hope to see someone with as much guidance as he has received learn something meaningful. That hasn't happened yet.

However, it might still happen. A surprising number of people here continue to offer advice and opinions based on years of experience and very dedicated study. My preference would be to get that knowledge without the background noise present from Brando090, but the knowledge is still valid in any case. Some optimistic streak in me hangs on to the notion that one day, the light might go on, and Brando090 will begin to understand how much he does not know.

Whether that happens or not, I have a free choice about which threads and posts I read. Any that I don't like can be skipped. No one is forcing me to participate. I admit to some perverse curiosity at times, kind of like watching a train wreck in progress. But, no one makes me watch train wrecks either if I don't want to.

I feel pretty strongly that David's stated goal for FPB is correct. Not always palatable, but it is the healthy choice in the long run. Frankly, I also have a lot of sympathy for anyone trying to moderate a group with that kind of goal. It is damn hard to do. For about four years I ran a local horse riding club. When I got involved the club mentality was highly divisive, and totally non-productive as a group. I made it a point to make sure that any member who thought they had something to say at board meetings had a chance to do so. They also had to accept responsibility for and defend what they said, which was sometimes much more difficult than they expected. Eventually the noise makers wore themselves out, and either left, or started listening more than talking.

So, I think having open discussions is for the best. I can participate or not. Just like listening to the radio on the way home from work, if I don't like what I am hearing, I can turn it off, or change stations. Or, I can listen anyway, and sometimes get surprised for the better by exposure to something new.

Wow, thanks.

This is a surprise?

Coherent presentation in writing, with tight syntax and grammar, is but the knock on the door for college. The first "would of done that" and you are toast. Buy Strunk and White and buy Word Power Made Easy, and make them your bible the next couple years.

-d

A real world example and slightly tangential support for David's position:

http://www.huffingto..._n_1937902.html

Brando
Buy a book, buy several books Paul Eranos book, Fishlers and Schnieders book, Glen Bowens book, Frank Dubiels book, The 51 book, the Waterman book, Cliff Lawrences book the Swan book There are dozens more. They are filled with information read them, study them learn. Got to a pen show, go to several pen shows and do please say please
Jerry

Also Jerry,

As far as pen shows, when i get a car (~2-3 months, BMW) id really like to go to the Chicago, Ohio, Detroit, and DC shows. Hopefully you guys will welcome me to dinner, please, and wont give me too much of a hard time.

Hmmh! Money to buy a BMW, (even if it might be used,) and then travel, and not enough to buy any books on a subject you are so involved in? Interesting!

The money shot in this thread indeed is my question for Brando, already touched on in this thread by George,

Brando, are you aware that the pen (Duofold Demonstrator) you were "offering" to sell me, one you had not identified as not your own, one whose photo was not yours, actually was my pen, in my possession at length?

How do you feel trying to sell someone his own pen?

Isn't that a little weird?

I would feel weird if I tried that with someone.

I wonder if anyone else here as ever tried to sell a pen to someone when the target of that sale already actually owned the pen in question.


For fun, here is Brando's email from June 21, 2012

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Pen Trade

David,

Here are some Parkers which we could work out, and the Duofold Demonstrator in Bakelite (i think);

'

Here is a thread about this very pen I offered to FPB, six months earlier, January 2012.

http://fountainpenbo...d-demonstrator/

Like, man, what are the odds?

regards

-david

Wow, am i dumb or what. Talk about the pen community being small

"Pathologically clueless"* seemed appropriate at the time of original posting. Maybe a new description is needed?

*Credit due to the original poster of this term. Excellent!

Ive got a rare Waterman 'World's Smallest Fountain Pen' which id be interested in trading. Please email me at XYZ, as i dont come here very often. Best Regards,Brandon

my favorite quote ever.......

Just curious if the rare Waterman "World's Smallest Fountain Pen" was offered to you before or after a discussion a few weeks ago about a similar pen? That pen had everything except a nib, feed, section, and intact cap.

Im looking for a photo of all the variations of Waterman 12's. Does anyone have one?

yes

yes

May i see it.

no

no

Oh

This place is much more entertaining than FPN.

I always loved vintage sterling pens, but now that I live near baths renowned for their sulphurous waters, my silver pens go totally black in less than a week. Does anybody know how to prevent this, other than keeping the pens somewhere else?

I've used this in the past to keep silver concert flutes from tarnishing. It did not have to be in direct contact with the silver, just have both in a closed container. In this case the container was the flute case.

http://www.silvergua...y-the-yard.aspx

Heart of Darkness is my go to ink from Noodler's., Polar Blue if I want a business-like but not black ink. . Sometimes Bay State Blue, Hunter's Eternal Green.

http://www.conidpen.com/

And click on the tab, the making of a pen. I think you will find this interesting.

The perfect accessory to add to my pen collection, a machine shop. I can hardly wait to tell my wife!

...

Actually getting lathed parts for this pen with ruin it's value and is $500+ to make what i need compared to increasing the value by buying $200-300 in original parts to finish this pen, and whatever the cost to repair the crack.

After which you can sell it through a well known but unnamed dealer in exquisite pens?

I do not know of anyone that is repairing cracks in hard rubber in an acceptable manner such that the repair would enhance the value of the pen and not merely serve to mask a problem to an unsuspecting buyer.

Awh, Farmboy-- in your case I suggest 2 part epoxy, not supeglue!

Exactly! J-B Weld will do the trick. In fact, you could just make a whole new cap out of it.

http://jbweld.net/index.php

... The sale is no secret, it's that i prefer to leave out the dealer as me mentioning people has gotten you members a bit riled up when i do.

Still seems very odd for a legitimate sale through a "known" dealer. The for sale forum seems to have plenty of posts for dealers. It looks like the sale could be listed there.

These are pretty nice pens, especially for the price. They are also good if you like to tinker a bit. The photo is my 530 with a 14K stubbed nib replacing the stock nib.

...

Here's another photo from me. Ill be selling it once this dealer fixes the crack (says it's not too hard) and he knows of someone who has a Doll with a broken barrel and will salvage parts from that and will put them on this pen (all original parts) and than he'll ask an appropriate price. If you are interested in the pen message me.

Since I am much more a modern pen than vintage pen guy, maybe I am missing something obvious. Where is the nib?

... the Sheaffer 3-25 is being sold through a well known re-seller of exquisite pens currently along with some "hard to fine" early Soennecken safeties and this Waterman 000 will also be being sold soon.

Who is the "well known re-seller of exquisite pens"? It could be interesting to browse their offerings.

That doesn't need to be pointed out, let's just say he's sold Parker Aztec's in the past, Waterman Doll pens,etc.

So is this a secret sale by a well known reseller? More to the point, it appears to be a sale of a vintage pen, mentioned on a board populated by vintage pen enthusiasts, (who would be expected to be the prime audience for such a sale,) being sold by a presumably experienced seller of such items, and the seller "doesn't need to be pointed out" ?

This is an unusual way of doing business, (in my opinion).

... the Sheaffer 3-25 is being sold through a well known re-seller of exquisite pens currently along with some "hard to fine" early Soennecken safeties and this Waterman 000 will also be being sold soon.

Who is the "well known re-seller of exquisite pens"? It could be interesting to browse their offerings.

I love the smell of education in the morning...

Excellent!

...

For all those "all-ways right" buyers that find me mysterious to deal with, though never truthly emailing me or talking to me in length to understand me, as yall would say "WOW! HE HAS 100% feedback". All id have to say, "That doesn't mean squat" its a determination of the pictures and weather he's selling proper evidence of an item or not.

Since I am new to this forum, I may have missed something, but "What???"

So, this thread has taken some neat turns.

While I'd planned to lead up to notions of identifying proper Parkers and of looking beyond the BS found on ebay ("prototypes". hmmmm), I didn't expect to see examples of the proper pen and stories of encounters with it.

Fun stuff

Oh... and yeah... watch out for "ebay bargains"

-d

Nicely directed thread. Fun and educational.

I have several Pelikans in my collection. Most were purchased new, and inlcude an M605, M405, (2) M400's, and a bunch of M200's. Last year I bought my first vintage pens, a 400NN, and a 140. Both of them write very well, and to my eyes, appear to be in very good working condition. Compared to all of my new Pelikans though, neither vintage pen retains ink very well. Every new model can be filled, and left for lengthy periods, and lose little, if any ink. Both vintage pens lose ink quickly in comparison. It is not lost from writing, but apparently through evaporation.

Is this common with vintage pens in general, with Pelikan vintage pens, or do I just happen to have a couple of ink vaporizers?

Hello from the shadows of the Smokies. I found FPB while looking for an alternative to FPN. I've been a fountain pen user since the early 1980's, and my earliest "real" pen is an MB146, purchased in Tokyo. My wife's opinion to the contrary, I consider myself a user, not a collector. My main criteria for a fountain pen is that it must be good writer, and be a pen I am will to take to work. My collection assortment of pens is heavy with Pelikans, (one 605, three 400's, 10-12 200's, and a 400NN and a 140). The remaining stock includes several Parker Sonnets, several Japanese pens, including two VP's (a faceted stealth and a new stealth), a couple of handfuls of Chinese knock offs, and others almost too numerous to count.

My ink collection is reasonably large, and heavy with Noodler's. ( I promise to try my best to avoid expressing any flame generating opinions concerning said inks).

Thanks to those involved in providing a new home for FP fans.